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Crusader Auras Shield Passive

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#21 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:09 AM

I'm not playing the devil's advocate. But let's stop this because it's not the reason the topic was made.

 

-> Topic

 

I'm not going to say the passive should be removed. Crusader has a ton of resources to stay alive forever and pretty much needs a spot for counterplay (his lack of damage isn't the point here, since he can provide an endlessly support to his teammates with heals, shields and % damage reduction).

 

Thing is, the -healing debuff is too long to maintain with only the skill that was meant to (Aura's Shield), so my suggestion is: Decreasing the -40%healing debuff's duration to 4.5s just like Aura's shield.

 

Why? Because if you don't want yourself to be burst down, you'll need to give up one of your key skills on surviving. That makes sense.

 

Right now, it's 10 seconds, you need to use 2 or 3 key skills to maintain yourself "tanky" while the passive is up, that's not a viable mechanic (as i said before, you better let your friend die so you can save your resources to stay alive yourself).


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#22 Sh-ade (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 08:37 AM

Crusader has a ton of resources to stay alive forever and pretty much needs a spot for counterplay (his lack of damage isn't the point here, since he can provide an endlessly support to his teamm

 

Once again - please be so kind to name your cap crusader so we all are sure that you know what you are saying. Cause 'expert' opinions of other classes especially haters are not that welcome in this topic.


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#23 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 09:32 AM

Once again - please be so kind to name your cap crusader so we all are sure that you know what you are saying. Cause 'expert' opinions of other classes especially haters are not that welcome in this topic.

 

Pointing the obvious is not being a hater. You are not the creator of the topic to decide what is welcome and what is not.


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#24 Sh-ade (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 10:50 AM

Pointing the obvious is not being a hater.

 

Fine - but please reveal your crusader at last. Otherwise your 'obvious' is nothing less than empty theorizing smile.png


Edited by Sh-ade (Elgore), 22 January 2016 - 10:51 AM.

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#25 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 03:28 PM

Reikkan is my crusader.


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#26 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 04:10 PM

level 40+, i already had some dialogue with him and honestly he knows the class well, better then some 60's ive seen


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#27 Flik (Elgore)

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 06:19 PM

I'm one of them. I only know about bashing skulls. Lol
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#28 Sh-ade (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 08:50 AM

level 40+, i already had some dialogue with him and honestly he knows the class well, better then some 60's ive seen

 

Still, I'd rather he/she reaches the cap and feels what is to be a crusader there. It is a principal difference being crusader in the middle tier and on the cap.

Especially when it comes to PvP with it's huge burst damages.


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#29 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 11:07 AM

I agree, but then again i am pure PvE build, PvP is just a large portion of my daily doing because of wars, siege etc, i still prefer bosses/elite hunting over PvP wink.png


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#30 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 11:32 AM

Still, I'd rather he/she reaches the cap and feels what is to be a crusader there. It is a principal difference being crusader in the middle tier and on the cap.

Especially when it comes to PvP with it's huge burst damages.

 

Partially, even i agree with this.

 

Thing is, even being a Crusader i don't plan to be immortal (no puns about guilds here rolleyes.gif ) because i like to counterplay things and i'm sure my foes do too.

 

It's very frustrating to deal with something with no spot for counterplay. If we keep asking for buffs without thinking this way, we're pretty much asking for a godlike class, and that's not my point.

 

I may be wrong, but at least for now, i'm not losing arenas at all (when I don't win, i tank 3 ppl till it draws) and i'm pretty much godlike at Ferromagnetic. I hope this doesn't extend to late game.

 

Games are made for fun and dealing with a Crusader midgame isn't fun. Idk about late game Crusader, but you get my point, right?


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#31 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 11:53 AM

Late game Crusaders are very spread out

 

There are many crusaders that experiment with builds, giving them all a unique way to counter them

 

Most however use the same build as Teranatus, including me, which is a PvE build with only very slight PvP emphasis (making us more effective in PvE rather then PvP)

 

I just hope they finished their Crusader nerfs, and this one goes out to everyone not having a Crusader, stop saying we are overpowered, at the moment i know 5 Crusaders in the whole server who are a pain to take down, out of idk how many crusaders that are on our server:

 

These have pretty amazing gear and skills, armor going from +9 to +11 and seals blue and above, knowing when to use what ability and actually knowing the ability itself

 

I know so many crusaders that cant even tank the Roots attack from Ancient Treant...


Edited by Spillion (Elgore), 25 January 2016 - 11:55 AM.

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#32 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 12:06 PM

Late game Crusaders are very spread out

 

There are many crusaders that experiment with builds, giving them all a unique way to counter them

 

 

Well, this is why I said the passive should be 4.5sec.

 

I don't want the passive to be deleted since it gives another point to explore when you fight against a Crusader (at least i'm exploring it when i fight another Crus in Arena or Ferro), but how it is right now, it's pretty much killing yourself or at least using 3 keyskills to survive while you take a lot of damage (with the low def calculation).

 

And i think they should change the way it works, using the Crusader defs, reductions and resistances.

 

Btw Spill, that chat we had about resistances. Think about a Crusader with PvP-gears. I know most of them doesn't go full PvP, but if there's the option to, you should think about this when thinking in buffs/nerfs.


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#33 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 12:15 PM

Toolbox is pure PvP resistance, while still having 36k defense, he is the only Crusader i know going this way, and he also has a 2nd experimental armor (the armor alone, no greaves etc) to tank in PvE, he is also the only Crusader i know that went semi dex, and it works out well for him

 

But i never was such a PvP beast to begin with, i had a level 55 full PvP armor (full armor of vengeance with blood cards, and a Stone protector of darkness with blood card Guardian in it)

I was pretty strong in PvP but i found out that full Defense with slight PvP resistance (for me currently 18, which is 15% reduction for PvP and humanoid) works much better, and also gives more versatility regarding all the end game content

 

This however is preference, PvP crusaders are a very rare (nearly extinct) breed of crusaders


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#34 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 01:14 PM

Toolbox is pure PvP resistance, while still having 36k defense, he is the only Crusader i know going this way, and he also has a 2nd experimental armor (the armor alone, no greaves etc) to tank in PvE, he is also the only Crusader i know that went semi dex, and it works out well for him

 

But i never was such a PvP beast to begin with, i had a level 55 full PvP armor (full armor of vengeance with blood cards, and a Stone protector of darkness with blood card Guardian in it)

I was pretty strong in PvP but i found out that full Defense with slight PvP resistance (for me currently 18, which is 15% reduction for PvP and humanoid) works much better, and also gives more versatility regarding all the end game content

 

This however is preference, PvP crusaders are a very rare (nearly extinct) breed of crusaders

 

I see, so, what do you suggest? Removing the passive or working around it?


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#35 Teranatus (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 01:30 PM

Just a little suggestion:

 

how about decreasing the duration of the empathy skill, and also let the 30% damage you take be scalated after YOUR Defense not the targets one, because this "buff" is basicly countering every part of the crusaders defense, by simply ignoring it


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#36 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 01:37 PM

Just a little suggestion:

 

how about decreasing the duration of the empathy skill, and also let the 30% damage you take be scalated after YOUR Defense not the targets one, because this "buff" is basicly countering every part of the crusaders defense, by simply ignoring it

Or maybe, if it doesnt scale with our defense, at least remove the healing reduction debuff, either way sounds good for me though


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#37 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 25 January 2016 - 01:56 PM

Just a little suggestion:

 

how about decreasing the duration of the empathy skill, and also let the 30% damage you take be scalated after YOUR Defense not the targets one, because this "buff" is basicly countering every part of the crusaders defense, by simply ignoring it

 

"And i think they should change the way it works, using the Crusader defs, reductions and resistances."

 

Yes, that's what i thought.

 

-40% healing during 4.5sec, and the 30% damage taken calculated with the Crusader's defense/resist

 

Sounds good?


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#38 Sh-ade (Elgore)

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 08:16 AM

I may be wrong, but at least for now, i'm not losing arenas at all (when I don't win, i tank 3 ppl till it draws) and i'm pretty much godlike at Ferromagnetic. I hope this doesn't extend to late game.

 

Games are made for fun and dealing with a Crusader midgame isn't fun. Idk about late game Crusader, but you get my point, right?

 

Well, it feels that we are playing 2 different games cause my crusader (in the mid=lvl he had 14k+ defense and 60%+ damage reduction) melted like ice in an arena while couldn't do any noticeable damage in response. All classes right now have the ways of absolutely killing the defense by multiple reductions. Warlocks could kill me through one simple series of controls + damaging skills.

 

And when it comes to PvE - new dots applied by all elemental monsters (90%+ of such) simply ignore any defense and burn a crusader away only a bit (1-2 ticks) slower than the most squishy class. At the same time, compared to, say, DK (please note that the DK here is not even a cap character while the Dark Carabus has the most difficult buff - Agile) crusader can't deal any decent damage in return relying only on his/her teammates.

 

But who am I to argue your personal experience after all. By all means - go on enjoying you immortal (no pun here as well) character.


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#39 Reikkan (Elgore)

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 09:09 AM

Well, it feels that we are playing 2 different games cause my crusader (in the mid=lvl he had 14k+ defense and 60%+ damage reduction) melted like ice in an arena while couldn't do any noticeable damage in response. All classes right now have the ways of absolutely killing the defense by multiple reductions. Warlocks could kill me through one simple series of controls + damaging skills.

 

And when it comes to PvE - new dots applied by all elemental monsters (90%+ of such) simply ignore any defense and burn a crusader away only a bit (1-2 ticks) slower than the most squishy class. At the same time, compared to, say, DK (please note that the DK here is not even a cap character while the Dark Carabus has the most difficult buff - Agile) crusader can't deal any decent damage in return relying only on his/her teammates.

 

But who am I to argue your personal experience after all. By all means - go on enjoying you immortal (no pun here as well) character.

 

Maybe you were fighting against better people who coordinate and knows how to play and my foes are combat dummies. I don't think i'm better than you because i'm still new (2 months playing this). Maybe it was all luck, who knows.

 

At PvE i can pretty much handle myself, I avoid playing solo and when i do, it's at Ferromagnetic mobbing Element Devourers. I know what you talk about those dots and to be honest, i would probably die on a sec if wasn't for Aura's Shield and the tons of heals and Heal overtime (Ray of light talent, Holy Touch, Banner). It's probably worse late game, i don't know.

 

Crusader's damage is awful at everything, nothing to say here.

 

I think the point of the Crusader is protecting his teammates (most of his protecting kit can be shared with the allies). DK is essentially better at solo-playing because the class is meant to, all his heals and buffs are for himself (except for his auras), we can't expect to be effective like them because DK can't fully support a party like a Crusader does. This is why we have different classes, for different playstyles.

 

All my posts look like i'm going against my own class, but i'm not. I just think they shouldn't change the class identity to make it more popular (for example: making it deal more damage without losing some defensive attributes).


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#40 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 05:09 PM

Crusaders dont have burst damage, that much is true

 

But the Crusader becomes dangerous in lasting fights, for the simple reason our main damage is sustained, over a longer period of time we can deal as much damage as burst classes, if not more

 

We can take hits others cant, and thus we dont have to hit and run like some assassins, or hide behind our team members like most snipers/hunters do, we ARE the front line, and for that we dont need high burst damage

 

Who needs burst damage when you can single handedly fight off 3 people (depending on their team comp) and still deal enough damage to take down some of their dps


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