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Dexterity Useless?


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#21 Candyman (Elgore)

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:37 PM

1 point of hit increases a lot, I think its about 1.5% chance to hit on a mob/player 5 levels above you. with the general max being at 95% with each point increase it by .1 after word, My math may be off a bit (someone correct me if i'm wrong please) .

So not missing + quick hits would be nice to have as well as making dex a little more useful, since my endgame build has me dumping the rest of my points into luck after strength and stamina....


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#22 Droog (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 12:18 AM

Ya, it sucks when ppl with dex build don't want to come into zone cause can't hit. I feel if you invest in dex, you should be reaping huge benefits to hit and flee - agile and dexterous. Love watching dex builds shred everything in sight to pieces

#23 NightStalker (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 02:25 PM

Ya, it sucks when ppl with dex build don't want to come into zone cause can't hit. I feel if you invest in dex, you should be reaping huge benefits to hit and flee - agile and dexterous. Love watching dex builds shred everything in sight to pieces

Yea I did a dex build cuz (since I was new to the game) I ASSUMED there would be some other benifits to dex beisdes a minor bit of attack speed. I thought maybe there would be some dodge involved or something. I am so far very dissapointed with the build and can't wait to get the item to reset stats (I already completed the quest by accident).



#24 Droog (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 05:30 PM

Agreed, very counter intuitive and wouldn't be hard to fix - eg if you lock points in dex, won't have so much str is kind of a given. Luck should also come into play - that would be interesting in the mechanic for the choices you have to make. If things were like this I'd like to see that unhittable dex/luck build that can't die unless aoe

#25 Candyman (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 05:34 PM

Agreed, very counter intuitive and wouldn't be hard to fix - eg if you lock points in dex, won't have so much str is kind of a given. Luck should also come into play - that would be interesting in the mechanic for the choices you have to make. If things were like this I'd like to see that unhittable dex/luck build that can't die unless aoe

It would be a very good PvE build, aggro the enemies and keep on as a tank, however with such a low attack with that build, PvP would suck.


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#26 Droog (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 08:52 PM

Ya hear ya candyman. Just something to fun with - but would be cool if useful in pvp

#27 NightStalker (Elgore)

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:56 PM

So any response on this topic from the admins/programmers/game designers? If I am off base here in thinking dexterity is an underpowered attribute, I'd love to hear it from some of the admins here. I'd be glad to be wrong, but I just don't see it right now.



#28 Droog (Elgore)

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 06:58 PM

Would also like to hear a response - I always feel like intuitively this has to change so I don't dex much but keep an eye on. There are more skill combos I'd like to use if didn't take so long to complete - I feel if you are dex all the way (even the somersaults) you should just go down the line w/o interruption or pause - 1234567 - whatever your hotkeys are



#29 DasWood (Elgore)

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:51 AM

Maybe dex is better at lvl 60, but as is when you are leveling dex is clearly inferior. All your skills are based off STR. And every class relies on AOE and things like roland to hit anything more than 3-4 levels higher than yourself. Since dex doesn't make your skills stronger you are gimpy against anything higher level than yourself.

 

The only way I would see around that is a high crit build. I was told critical hits never miss. So more crit % means more hitting. That is more of a reason to go str/luck than dex/luck imo though.



#30 Droog (Elgore)

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:48 PM

Ya so if you dex you actually do pull off skills a lot faster - but man going dex is asking to get killed pvp esp due to the fact our skills are str based. I guess our only viable options are str/luck and str/sta - depending on goal and playstyle. Anyone got a mandrake?



#31 NightStalker (Elgore)

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:27 PM

So I finally got to reset the stats for my assassin. At level 30, I have something like 90 Strength and 35ish stamina.

 

This build makes it SO MUCH EASIER to kill things AND stay alive than my stupid 82 dexterity build.

 

Just in case anyone was curious from personal experience (for rogue/assassin anyway), yes, strength build is WAY better than dexterity build. My skill damages are about double than what they used to be.

 

Again this might be obvious to most of you, but I finally got to see it for myself in practice. Since  I started this thread I figured I would mention it.



#32 TravionMudbridge (Elgore)

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 08:49 AM

You're playing one of the only two classes that doesn't have a viable dexterity build, the other being dark knights. Also, what level are you? Dexterity is one of the strongest stats for both hunters and snipers. There are warlock and sorcerer builds that max dexterity as well. There's also a crusader AoE survivability build that maxes dexterity for grandcross spam. Thieves can make on-hit dexterity builds for high dps and grinding but it's terrible in PvP.

 

I agree at first glance dexterity looks awful but the buffs you're suggesting are ridiculously overpowered. If you think +1 dodge/+5 dodge per milestone is fair, you're either dreaming or don't realize the value of dodge. Also, if you think 1% attack speed/5% attack speed per milestone is fair, you need to check your math or actually bother to do some.

 

I honestly, to a small degree, agree that dexterity needs a buff, but not what you're suggesting. I would be happy to see it jump to 0.5% attack speed per point, 2.5% attack speed per milestone. Or even 0.33%/2.5%. If it were to add dodge, it would have to add it in values similar or possibly lower than the attack speed amount. ie. 0.2 dodge/2dodge.

 

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With the way dexterity currently is, hunters can get up to 4 attacks per second while beastly fury is up. The hunter's best talent hands down is Buzzing Arrows which has a 7% chance on attack to drop a bomb on the enemy dealing massive AoE damage. There is also several on-hit proc cards you can slot in your gloves for a similar effect. On top of those, there are seals you can get that have a small chance of applying bleeds, burns, and poisons that deal immense amounts of damage. Built properly hunters should always auto-attack and only ever use skills as utility to keep the enemy away.

 

Snipers are capable of similar builds to the hunter. The sniper's strongest build as far as sustained damage goes is an on-hit air damage proc build. Snipers aren't capable of the amount of attacks per second as hunters are but they also have Sniper Shot, originally a 2.5 second cast, that deals upwards of 20,000 damage (tooltip), non-crit, that can be brought down to 1.5 seconds pretty easily with how dex currently is. This ability needs to be interrupted in PvP, or it typically results in someone's death. They lose a lot of accuracy (Sniper's strength/attack) and/or crit chance by doing so, but it's very viable. If dex was too much stronger than it is now (ie. your 1%/5% suggestion), Sniper's could get 250% attack speed before any gear, seals, or cards, resulting in a Sniper Shot cast time under 1 second. Good luck interrupting/surviving that.

 

Sorcerers and Warlocks both have cast time abilities and dexterity builds are viable on them similarly to how they're viable to the Sniper class with Sniper Shot. Their abilities will be a little weaker but cast much faster. This is especially true for the abilities Chaos Bolt, Lightning Bolt, and the ability that looks like Arcane Blast that I can't currently think of the name of. There's a mage talent that makes spamming the same ability over and over again stronger each time. Dex builds with this talent can be broken, in end game gear.

 

In general, dexterity is not very strong for the other four classes, but Crusaders and Thieves can still make builds around dexterity. It can even be useful to DKs and Assassins in small amounts for ability weaving and energy conservation.

 

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Coming back to an original question/concern; what level are you? Strength is not as strong as you probably think it is late game.

 

Simple math example:

 

At level 10, your weapon may have something like 20 attack. 1 point of strength increases that by 2 attack. That's a 10% attack increase (2/20 = 0.1*100 = 10%).

At level 60, your +10 weapon may have something more like 800 attack. 1 point of strength still only increases that by 2 attack. That's a 0.25% attack increase

(2/800 = 0.0025*100 = 0.25%).

 

Currently, as a Sniper, I will likely be stopping my accuracy whenever I hit about 1,000 attack. The rest of my points will be split across dexterity, stamina, and luck. Probably 1:1:1, but I'll have to toy with it a little more.

 

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In conclusion, it's unfortunate dexterity isn't very strong for your class, even though it's still arguably viable late game, but buffing it, especially by the numbers you're suggesting, would be ridiculously overpowered for every other class. I do agree, again, a very small dexterity buff may be in order though.

 

 

 

~ Razzista, level 57 Sniper, math major dropout, been writing MMO guides and inventing builds and strats since I was a wee lad.

 

Your "Simple math example" does not make sense. Why would any game balance it's main stats with gear stats or even skill stats? In any typical RPG, main stats should be balanced with the stats of other character classes, similarly, gear stats should be balanced *only* with other gear stats and skill stats should be balanced with other classes' skill stats.

This game has not done that. I'm betting they made this game with a shortage of deadline time.

 

An ideal main stat balancing shows equal distribution of properties between all available character classes. 1 Strength should give a fixed and constant attack of x. It should not gives 1/2x for rogues and 2x for warriors. If this is done, then balancing the game becomes even more difficult and tedious. You would then try to balance each class individually and this will result in all classes becoming exceedingly unbalanced in their stats and potency. The same for Stamina providing HP. They clearly did not think and plan things through. 

 

For any percentage proc rate or chance parameter like Critical Chance Rate or Attack speed, if there is a maximum level cap and the game engine is capable of handling upto 6 hits per second, this end mark should be taken as the benchmark and equally distributed among all the character levels.

 

A better suggestion would be to attribute the proc rate as fixed per stat per level gained. Eg, if 1 Dex gave an increase of 1% in attack speed, add a barrier to number of points that can be allotted to dexterity per level gain. Remaining stat points can be allotted to other stats. This way is transparent and easily understood.

 

One way to handle this would be to add a natural penalty to each percentage proc rate parameter every time a character levels up. Eg, a penalty of 0.3% to crit chance every time the character levels up. This is a hardcore option.

 

There is another way regarding percentage proc rate parameters. Allow any class to increase their parameter to the maximum permitted by game (say, 75% crit chance or 6 hits/second or 85% dodge) in the shortest progression of levels then further stat allocation to respective stat will not increase the main derivative but double the secondary or tertiary derivative.This is a more creative solution.

 

There is one more way to handle this. Eliminate the parameters constant proc rate irrespective of opponent. Instead of having a fixed proc rate, the parameter is a numeral that is dependent on comparison between the two opponents. Eg, A has 1500 crit and B has 1000 crit resistance, hence, A's chances of landing a critical is 50%. If A is facing a group of enemies, the average value of the crit resistance is taken to calculate the proc rate.

 

As a conclusion, players want the freedom to experiment with their builds that allow completely unique game mechanics. Some want to hit hard, others want to survive longest, others want to heal the most, some others want to reflect the most, others want to have the fastest attack speed, etc.

This can only be implemented if the base stats and skills promote experimentation. 

This game does not have much variety in defensive skills. It is a typical attack based game.

An ideally balanced main stats should allow a tester to play the entire the game by only focusing on *one* stat or attribute. This promotes variety and freedom of choices.

I really liked the graphics, theme, quests, simplicity of UI, low learning curve, combat animations and skills of this game. I just hope the developers would read this post and think about what I suggested. Thank you.


Edited by TravionMudbridge (Elgore), 26 May 2019 - 09:41 AM.


#33 Godsu (Elgore)

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 05:39 PM

mate this post is 4.5 years old, move on


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#34 TravionMudbridge (Elgore)

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 09:31 AM

mate this post is 4.5 years old, move on

 

Does not matter if this post is 4.5 years old. I came across it by searching for "dexterity is useless" via Google search. Others may come across it in a similar way. It's worth a read.






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