Jump to content


Photo

Why not dex?

Attributes Builds Agility Dexterity

  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 Yssen (Elgore)

Yssen (Elgore)

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:24 AM

I have seen lots of people commenting on the forums in various areas that dex is useless, but I don't understand why. I'm hoping someone can give me some logic behind that. I did some calculations, and from what I can tell, from a base dps perspective dex is twice as useful as luck.

 

Let's assume a base damage of 350 (at 100 str) and an attack speed of 1 second (350 dps). These are the norms the calculators use.

 

If you go 2:2 Str/Dex:

At 100 Dex, your attack speed is 149%. That increases your 1 second damage (dps) to 521.5, and your 5 second damage to 2607.5.

 

If you go 2:2 Str/Luck:

At 100 luk,, your critical chance is 45.3%. Critical attack strength is 150%, meaning you do damage times 1.5. If you crit, your 1 second damage is 525, and your 5 second damage (if you crit every hit) is 2625.

 

The luck numbers are higher, but that's only if you crit, which is just under a 50% chance per hit. This means in practicality that you halve those numbers. Now luck is only giving you about half as much damage increase as dex. Assuming you can land 4 out of 5 crits in a row, you're still only doing 2100 damage.

 

I know this is ignoring gear and skills, so maybe that's the significant factor. But if so, could someone please explain/demonstrate?

 

 

Edited for typos...



#2 Kuiba (Elgore)

Kuiba (Elgore)

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 167 posts

Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:37 AM

Because end game you when you finish gearing you will have 100% crt rate... or close to it atleast. there are certain classes that can use dex and others that can't.


2q1uw53.png


#3 Yssen (Elgore)

Yssen (Elgore)

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:41 AM

Hmmm, interesting. I didn't imagine you'd actually be able to double your crit rate with gear stats. I figured maybe 70-75%, which still wouldn't close the gap. Guaranteed crit would push it just over the edge though. Then, if you also gear buff your crit strength, bonus.

 

Thanks Kuiba!



#4 Muerta (Elgore)

Muerta (Elgore)

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:51 AM

I'm not sure what class you play but for Hunters Dex only aids our auto attack speed.  None of our abilities have actual cast times to get cut by Dex.  So a Dex-based build for a hunter would rely on 1) attacking with mostly auto attacks and 2) high crit and plenty of % chance to <cast whatever damage spell> cards and seals.  We would sacrifce points in both Luck and Stam (and, heaven forbid, accuracy---our version of STR) to achieve a high enough Dex to notice a considerable improvement in auto attack speed.  It's just not worth it.

 

End game there may be a viable Dex build or two (for Hunters) but we're talking tens of millions of gold spent on gear, cards and seals to get it. 

 

For classes that have abilities with cast times Dex may well be awesome.  If your most powerful ability is a 2s cast time and you can get it down to 1s without sacrificing too much health/power/attack power then that's probably a worthwhile investment.



#5 Gurtheg (Elgore)

Gurtheg (Elgore)

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 13 September 2014 - 03:13 AM

You can do all the math you want but in the end dex will only help your auto attacks, that's why it's inferior



#6 Razzista (Elgore)

Razzista (Elgore)

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 150 posts

Posted 13 September 2014 - 03:14 AM

The strongest hunter build actually uses full dex/attack speed modifiers and only uses auto attacks, believe it or not. :P


  • ShitPiecemage (Elgore) likes this

I heard Snowpea burp on Skype.

Quite possibly one of the hottest things I've heard in my life.

 

VBjXkYf.jpg


#7 Gurtheg (Elgore)

Gurtheg (Elgore)

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 13 September 2014 - 03:14 AM

I'm not sure what class you play but for Hunters Dex only aids our auto attack speed.  None of our abilities have actual cast times to get cut by Dex.  So a Dex-based build for a hunter would rely on 1) attacking with mostly auto attacks and 2) high crit and plenty of % chance to <cast whatever damage spell> cards and seals.  We would sacrifce points in both Luck and Stam (and, heaven forbid, accuracy---our version of STR) to achieve a high enough Dex to notice a considerable improvement in auto attack speed.  It's just not worth it.

 

End game there may be a viable Dex build or two (for Hunters) but we're talking tens of millions of gold spent on gear, cards and seals to get it. 

 

For classes that have abilities with cast times Dex may well be awesome.  If your most powerful ability is a 2s cast time and you can get it down to 1s without sacrificing too much health/power/attack power then that's probably a worthwhile investment.

To get from 2s to 1s you need like 200 points of DEX



#8 EmeraldArcher (Elgore)

EmeraldArcher (Elgore)

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 13 September 2014 - 02:31 PM

The strongest hunter build actually uses full dex/attack speed modifiers and only uses auto attacks, believe it or not. :P

 

they use on hit effects for World Bosses, Hunter = Near useless in PVP


HELP FOR NEW PLAYERS

 
 
Nissassa_zps7faf0a1a.png EmeraldArcher_zpsc917a315.png VanguardElite_zpsa4670165.png
 
Guild: Guild-Logo_zpse676905c.png Server: RQ-Server_zps8b1b31d5.png fs_d57816945b0be6871ff9bcb0e18002b3.png


#9 Muerta (Elgore)

Muerta (Elgore)

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 14 September 2014 - 12:22 PM

The strongest hunter build actually uses full dex/attack speed modifiers and only uses auto attacks, believe it or not. :P

 

I've already pretty much dissected this claim in another thread.  You can't really claim it to be the "strongest hunter build" when it requires:

 

1) At least 20m (at current market prices) in end-game gear, including the best "chance to proc" cards--some of which are so rare that they are almost never for sale.

2) Full group support to allow you to ignore your health pool at the expense of more dex

3) A mob with a TON of health (ie, PVE bosses and that's pretty much it) as your target.

4) Countless amount of $$ spent on getting the right "proc" seals--unless you get VERY lucky.

 

 

And even once you have ALL of that--I'm not entirely convinced an Accuracy/Luck/Stam build wouldn't do better.  If you could crit 50% or more of time (easy to get at level cap, I'd imagine) and stacked +crit damage on your gear than dex/attack speed increase/"chance to proc" you'd probably do better.  You'd also perform better in a wider array of situations AND you wouldn't be as reliant on group support to let you DPS without worrying about survival.

 

Sorry, but until I see some solid post explaining WHY this mythical uber Dex build is so great for Hunters I refuse to believe it.  I've spend 6 fruits now to test things and my tests just don't show it.  Dex is inferior to the other 3 stats until someone can actually prove otherwise.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Attributes, Builds, Agility, Dexterity

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users