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PVE/PVP damage multiplier

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#1 Moonsilver (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 04:36 PM

For a long time people are arguing and whining about some classes being too strong/weak in PVP/PVE.
The main problem is to balance classes PVE and PVP damage, For example: Crusaders have good EHP but weak DPS, at the same time archer classes and rogues - exact opposite.
If we strengthen Crusaders Skill DMG they will become too powerfull in PVP and balanced in PVE, and the opposite situation with archers and rogues.
In my opinion this can be easily solved adding to the game such thing like PVE dmg multiplier - separate % modificator for every class in the game.
For example:
We can make 200% multiplier for Crusaders only for PVE (against all monster races or with adding new special attribute for monsters if the one do not exist right now), with this the PVP part will not be changed at all and can be easy and very precisely adjusted.

Same for DPS Classes which are unbalanced in similar way - with unhealthy (DPS)/(Survivability) ratio.


Edited by Wiggin (Elgore), 25 September 2018 - 04:53 PM.


#2 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 06:25 PM

Bad idea, simply because, at the moment a damage build crusader (its rare but there are some) can already do pretty crazy damage, buffing that in pve would make all other classes obsolete, and make it nearly impossible to get anything from any bosses

 

Also, there are pvp zone bosses and elites, what will happen there?


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#3 Ðarknight (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 06:41 PM

Let the laziness aside and make another character for the PVE. Stop being like your guild who gets his butt sitting on varlone receiving loot from the castle.


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#4 Moonsilver (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 08:02 PM

Bad idea, simply because, at the moment a damage build crusader (its rare but there are some) can already do pretty crazy damage, buffing that in pve would make all other classes obsolete, and make it nearly impossible to get anything from any bosses

 

Also, there are pvp zone bosses and elites, what will happen there?

Read my post again and PLEASE stop talking nonsense about DPS-crusaders.

Let the laziness aside and make another character for the PVE. Stop being like your guild who gets his butt sitting on varlone receiving loot from the castle.

Hmmm.. make another character to farm for crusader.
This basically means you agree that new low-geared character will farm better then fine-geared crusader.
Also, you actually recommend to gear 2 characters instead of 1 to make crusader viable.
Hmmmm. Nice logic.
If game developers chose that way they have to leave hunters overpowered and nerf all other classes.
You know - you can make hunter to kill mobs. No need to play your main class.
 



#5 Nikolaa (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 10:19 PM

Crusaders the tank class needs to deal damge
DPS classes hitting to high are imba?

You should go to the russian server where are other people that think like/similiar with you.


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#6 Moonsilver (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 11:09 PM

Crusaders the tank class needs to deal damge
DPS classes hitting to high are imba?

You should go to the russian server where are other people that think like/similiar with you.

There is no such thing as "tank class" in this game.
And no DPS class.
Here are 2 classes right now who can do as support effectively and 2 classes who can Tank effective.
Dark Knight can tank not worse then the crusader but he can change to DPS build and feels fine (btw will have powerUP with next update).
Mages can both - be good support and a good DPS/farming machine. Also they can farm really nice with support build.
Crusders can't do nothing of that.

I do not say that crusaders should have huge DMG in tank or support build, it would be ridiculous.
I`m just saying that DPS build crusaders are shit at the moment.
If you think they have tools to farm mobs you should watch this gifs
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PS: i am freee to play the server i prefer. US server is closer to me. Be carefull with your "go to russian server" etc.
I`m making a suggestion here.
If you dont agree with me - show your arguments.

PSS: show me a DPS crusader who can keep up with hunter, DK, sniper, etc in terms of DPS on elites or usual farming.
 


Edited by Wiggin (Elgore), 26 September 2018 - 01:19 AM.

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#7 Moonsilver (Elgore)

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 11:16 PM

This topic is not about crusaders. Crusaders PVE problem is a demonstrative example of a class with broken mechanics on PVE/PVP.
Nobody will disagreee that hunters are most OP pve fighters right now. Crusaders are the worse. At the same time hunters dont feel fine in PVP usually. If they got nerfed in DPS it will make them not viable PVP fighters.
I`v made suggestion and few examples to prove my point.



#8 Ðarknight (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 02:14 AM

I understand your point of view, but it does not emulate everything. You should rather take into account what each class was made to do this game. You can do the Crusader DPS in the PVE and, as you yourself said, seriously via doing a DMG multiplier for these classes in the PVE without altering it not PVP. I am totally against this, as was mentioned above by me, we must take into account what each class was made to do in that game. Many do not take into account the critical chance, see the critical chance of the crusader you mentioned. Many skills in area also do not cause critical DMG, and you may not have taken into account the damage that the crusader has mounted. I have as an example the DzastaW cruzader, he took 28k of life from my DK in just one combo. Some classes have their respective activities and this affects the talents in general. I use my DK ( destreza) to farm, I use my Hunter (daenerys) to kill boss, and all my other 5 classes are focused on what they are really made to do. We have the example of DK damage, as you said before, the DK can be tank or it can be damage. Exactly that, but the DK tank can not win a chest, and DK damage can not win a Hunter's chest with the same gear, that's impossible, or this hunter does not know how to play with his own class.
 
 The classes that are most likely to win the chest are the hunter and snipers and, I believe, the killers in the new patch, if they have the right gear and talent.
 
 You mentioned Hunter in PVP, that he would not look good on PvP on behalf of nerf. Erradisimo, this nerf came to an end in the (single) damage scrotum of the hunter. This nerf is expected longer than the nerf of DK himself in his "glory" time. Gear, talents and, of course, fingers are important to play PVP. I can earn from hunter +11 pvp with my hunter +7 pve. lmao. Look at how much DK that server had when dk was destroying RQ, and see how many DKs they now know they can play. They are almost none.
 
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Edited by Z'oldyck (Elgore), 26 September 2018 - 02:14 AM.

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#9 Ragedrop (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 06:12 AM

*shakes head*

Seriously People?

You all realize for 1 - the devs dont care about anything we post in regards to balance here. Try the Ru Forum, maybe you have a shot there to reach someone.

2 - Crusaders can deal high dmg in pvp or on bosses/elites. DzastaW is a good example, so was Yugi on his Crus. They also do not have problems farming large groups of mobs either. A bit of gear and a Brain. Well mostly a Brain is what you need to farm with any class effectifly and efficently.
If you read the descriptions on most of their talents, skills and the entire layout of the class you might realize however that their "Design" was not meant for "High Dmg" but "Tanking and survival of yourself and your team" - but hey you can play like you want.

 

The difference between most Players really is not Class Balance anymore, but Skill in use of the Class. Prime Example : Imagine 12 lvl 60 players trying to kill Beastbane (Old Days, pre DK patch) and 1 lvl 48 Warlock outside of any Party, just by himself. Of the 12 lvl 60 Players 8 Die atleast 4 times. The lvl 48 does not once. Are Warlocks Op at the time? No. The Player just knew when to defbuff Natural Selection and step out of the way of Jogging so he would not die like the lvl 60 +10/Orange Noobs.

The Example is meant to show that no matter how broken and "OP" one class and Gear can be, there will be People unable to Play it correct. The same is true for the other way around, no matter how "bad" a class may be at the current patch level, someone will try their best to make it work. Usually turns out it is possible in some way atleast for PVE.


Sorcs are amazing at farming large amounts of monsters, but I have yet to see any of these "DMG SORCS" win a single Chest on any Boss that has more than 4 "dps" on it. With the last Patch Warlock DMG got great so they can win with the right gear now.

Hunter and Sniper Dps still great everywhere, but they are squishy as heck in exchange. Next nerf gonna show how bad its gonna get.

Dks got nerfed way harder than most people want to realize or admit to, its still strong enough to win chests.

3 - And for the love of God, if you cant Farm on an PVE "Unkillable by default" Crusader with 2800 Atk for some reason - not even sure you should be allowed to play the game...


Edit: I can make my Brother log on his lvl 60 Crusader +9/orange mostly with no Bosscards. On Tank Build. And he can Kite any given Map in the Game. Sure it takes him a bit longer to kill the mobs than a Sorc. But he CAN do it. Its not impossible like the Topic Owner suggests.....


Edited by Ragedrop (Elgore), 26 September 2018 - 06:16 AM.

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#10 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 10:49 AM

Seeing this guy doesnt know Dzastaw or Yugi, idk if he even comprehends the crusader class and what it is supposed to be in this game (i do say supposed to be, each their style)

 

Are crusaders currently more or less outshined by Dk's regarding tanking, yes, seeing i know many dk's who can both tank and get a chest to boot

 

Crusaders were never meant to deal damage, doesnt mean they cant deal damage, just not enough compared to the current top dps classes

 

Basically ill say this, you want to be a Damage build Crusader, play a Dark Knight, and for crying out loud play a class how its supposed to be played, we already heavily lack actual tanks at bosses, to such extent i see hunters and thieves dodge tanking bosses


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#11 EdgyDalmaska (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 02:09 PM

If you want to have a PVE farming char as your main then make a class that's good at farming.

If you want to have a Crusader as your main because it's your favourite class (assuming you don't buy stuff and go +11 instantly) then become PVP player or Tanker for party quests/dungeons.

 

But you can't make Crusader as your main and be OP at farming at the same time, just have to accept it because it won't change, and it shouldn't change.


At this point I just play RQ for the memes.


#12 Godsu (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 03:53 PM

 thieves dodge tanking bosses

i have only recently been testing this, and i think now if i have even the slightest amount of support, i can tank ent


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#13 Wing (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 04:05 PM

But can you keep agro :P
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#14 DarksKiss (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 06:21 PM

I get your frustration about crusaders. Crusaders have to choose between having high dmg or op healing and tanking abilities. If they had both then Crusaders would be the meta "op" class. Currently, Hunters still dominate dmg wise in PvE. Next patch changes that.

I have seen 2 dps crusaders that manage well. Every other crusader uses the meta PvP/PvE full support healing build. So of course they will not win that way.. Change to the dps build and watch the change.

As mentioned above currently DPS classes are tanking bosses.

Thieves and Sins built right can tank every boss in the game with minimal support. That's with a heal every so often from a hunter or a sorcs help for stronger bosses. Not all bosses need a support. Keeping agro is not an issue. Occasionally, the "OP" hunter pulls ago or the noob DK uses a taunt. Other than that a well equipped dps can tank anything.

Examples of bosses with no support. I can solo tank and kill Elka on my assassin.
Des I can maintain agro and tank without any support.

Other bosses like ent,archon,gt can be tanked but may require a little healing from a hunter.

Other classes have found ways to tank the bosses as well. Learn the machanics and you should never die.

#15 Solsagan (Elgore)

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 09:38 PM

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#16 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 08:47 AM

i have only recently been testing this, and i think now if i have even the slightest amount of support, i can tank ent

 

Yeah i was primarily referring to Hava's thief atm, but im sure you could do it too

 

And given a bit of support, i can tank decently as well now with the wolf build on hunters, despite it being claimed as inferior (its playstyle preference tbh, i like being tankier and supporting, probably still stuck with that mindset from when i played crus)

 


Edited by Khyaran (Elgore), 27 September 2018 - 08:50 AM.

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#17 Moonsilver (Elgore)

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 10:10 PM

I had a little conversation with DzastaW.
He said he can sometimes take chest from bosses and fight 1v1 any class except DrakKnights.
He also said that hunters are much better in PVE. He has a hunter with almost same level +9 gear.

Resuming: you dont have to be 200 IQ to notice that OP classes are the most popular.
Right now Crusaders, Rogues and Warlocks are most unpopular.
People usually abandon characters because they cant deal fine with mobs.



#18 Godsu (Elgore)

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 12:30 AM

Right now Crusaders, Rogues and Warlocks are most unpopular.
People usually abandon characters because they cant deal fine with mobs.

Both rogue classes? 

Have I not seen some warlocks around?


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#19 Moonsilver (Elgore)

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 04:37 AM

Both rogue classes? 

Have I not seen some warlocks around?

uh..this game localisation sucks.
I meant the one`s wearing sword and axes =)

There are warlocks playing. I am not saying nobody playing warlocks.
I said warlock class is one of most unpopular.
PS: i dont say warlocks are weak. i`m saying what i sayin



#20 Ðarknight (Elgore)

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 05:35 PM

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