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A nobody's guide to better thieving

A small update to Thief

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#1 Morŧred (Elgore)

Morŧred (Elgore)

    The Master Thief

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:37 PM

Introduction:
Hi ... erm or ... Hello or Greetings if you will ... oh screw this type of socializing ... let me start over. 
...
Welcome to Bootcamp, Sunshine! I'm not here to tell you to pick this and that over that or do whatever ... I'm here to help you get a better understanding of a Class that I've been playing for years.
Yes it's going to be a long journey, yes it could get a bit complicated at times, but if you're a dedicated Thief then I have no doubt that you'll make it. 
Also depending on the Format I may or may not need to post each part of the Guide individually.
If I had to give a quick advice to any new Thieves it would be: Don't follow or do stuff just because they are what's popular at the moment or because someone says it's overpowered ... that is called Sheep herding. Instead discover what works for you and what you want out of the Class not for others.
I've split up my Guild into 5 parts each with it's own Title so you can have a go at it in whatever order you prioritize.
All set? Good. Fancy and Clichéd Speeches are Over. Let us begin.
 
Welcome to Part 1 - Talent Trees
 
Fighting Talent Tree
 
The Fighting Talent Tree is mostly associated with Damage Amplification on a Single Target. Ideal for Roaming-Pick off, Elite Farming and 1 on 1 Duel Advantage.
 
 
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1 - I recommend this talent if you are using a Critical hit Build since a lot of skills listed are ones that work well with Critical strikes(Shadow Strike already has a high damage bonus if used to break out of Stealth and increased chance for a Critical strike if positioned correctly, Adder Strike is a Finisher which means it has great damage potential, not to mention Both it and Bloody Strike can deal Critical Hits with their Damage over Time effects). Downside is ... unless you're going to for a Raw Damage build or Critical Hit build, there aren't really any talent combinations with this one since the damage over time debuffs(Poison from Adder Strike and Bleeding from Bloody strike) are not effected by the Armor Penetration feature from this talent, only the initial damage is. 
 
2 - I honestly have had a tough time deciding between this talent and the previous one. Simply because both of them restrict their damage bonuses to specific skills with medium long cooldowns. Meat Grinder tends to require a Condition for the bonus damage, but the skills with said damage have lower cooldowns than the ones from Penetrating Strikes.
On the basis of Armored Enemies(players are no exception to this basis) Penetrating strikes win in efficiency in the longer run but provides very little early on(decent at early levels good at higher levels), while Meat Grinder is more consistent in terms of damage scaling and it does offer slightly more PVE potential in quickly killing off mobs one at a time especially if combined with the Bloody Strike skill, the Thorny Net, Cruel Blows and Massacre talents from the ... Massacre talent tree.
What I would recommend is: If you have to choose between Meat Grinder and Penetrating strike, go for Meat Grinder and keep it until level 50 or higher then switch to Penetrating strikes if you are more interested in PVP but as far as PVE goes I would still stick with Meat Grinder.  
 
3 - Very simple and effective damage buff for fighting under a very easy condition(Enemy must be bleeding). Works very well with Massacre, Cruel Blows and Thorny Net talents from the Massacre talent tree, the Bloody Strike skill, the Meat Grinder talent and Bashing from the Robbery talent tree. Don't forget you're not the only one who can apply the bleeding effect on an enemy and if you find yourself unable to spend points on any of the listed talents and are afraid to rely only on your Bloody Strike to make the most out of this talent, you can always make it easier with Bleeding Woulds, Feast of Blood talents ... or Crippled Mind and Explosive Shot talents, but those are more effective on Mage/Archer classes.
 
4 - A talent devoted to increasing Critical Strikes for accurate positioning. Mostly favored by those who play a Roaming type of Thief who picks off specific targets and/or Critical Damage builds.
Fun fact you still gain the bonus of this talent regardless of the distance between you and your target as long as they are not facing you - keep that in mind if you are going for damage over time build(Bleeding, Poison, Elemental damage etc.).
It does come with a slight downside though: It does deteriorate with every level up unless the player consistently adds Attribute points into Luck as your chances to land a critical strike decrease with each level up.
I did have a hard time deciding between this talent and the previous one on which is the better for Elite farming:
Elite Monsters don't really have a way of removing Bleeding, but if you don't have the talents or seals to continuously apply Bleeding then, you're not really making the most of the Butcher talent.
Aside from the downside mentioned above there is still a possibility that the Elite Monster will target you and if it does than you are drastically losing efficiency on the Secret Operations.
In the end Secret Operations is Great for PVP with an Okay benefit to PVE, while Butcher is Good in Both situations.
 
5 - It's Great, Raw damage for PVP and a boost to farming certain Elite/Boss types. Short, Sweet and to the point.
 
6 - ... this is the one talent that just ... simply put ... it is very situational and it can backfire spectacularly:
This talent has no Cooldown and the damage dealt from it equals your Attack Power. You have to be in Melee Range for it to proc, it counts Neutral Damage which means it is reduced by enemy Armor and it can not Crit.
So what's wrong with this talent? ... WHAT'S RIGHT WITH THIS TALENT!?! It simply can not outscale the Bonus damage from the Cutthroat talent. Unless you are full on committing to full Strength Damage instead of Elemental, Direct PVP or even Critical Damage the Average damage from this talent will equal a single tic of damage from debuffs that deal damage over time. 
Let's theorize for a little bit, shall we?
Situation 1 - Enemy deals slow, but Heavy Damage:
The talent can proc from 1 Single Instance of damage - Let's say you are fighting an Elite Monster or a Player and you get Hit for 60% of your Health from a Critical Strike. You are going to proc only 1 instance of damage from the talent in return.
Situation 2 - Enemy is dealing not enough damage, but at a Very high Attack Rate:
In 1 second you take several hits from an Enemy Player in Melee Range with a Dexterity build or you get hit by Multiple Enemy units at the same time, unless one of that damage instances exceeds 7% of your Health the talent will not proc ... (Translation: You can lose 80% of your Health without the Parry talent procing once.)
Situation 3 - Health Management:
It's very simple - the less Maximum Health you have the higher the chances of Situation 1 ocuring become, the more Maximum Health you have the higher the chances of Situation 2 ocuring become.
Situation 4 - Armor and Race Resistance Management:
- Copy and Paste description of Situation 3 here, but replace "Maximum Health" with "Armor and Resistance" -
Situation 5 - Not paying attention to a Monster's Aggression:
You are in a Party fighting a Boss/Elite and you either have no Tank or his Provocative skills are on Cooldown. You outdamage your team and the Monster targets you, you get hit and you take heavy damage so you begin to run away hoping that someone in your party will deal enough damage to steal Aggro. The Monster catches up to you and hits you once again, but you proc talent dealing damage to the Monster thus prolonging it's Aggression towards you. Yes, this is a very rare situation that most players may or may not experience, but the fact that it is a possibility is just insultingly ridiculous.
Using the Talent in combination with a shield is ... questionable ... but mostly overcomplicated in the damage calculations, though it may be considered okay-ish for a semi-tank build(Shield Thief).
Perhaps if they made this an Active Aura similar to Buzzing Arrows(Hunter Active talent) and Heavy Ammunition(Sniper Active talent), gets changed into the Assassin version of the Parry talent or if it gets Reworked to "Every time the Thief takes damage in melee range there is a chance that he will delivers a retaliationary strike" then perhaps it could be considered decent but as of now this talent is too situational
 
7 - Hands down one of the Best talents for both Thieves and Assassins ... just ... just trust me on this. The fact that this talent give the ability to use Sip of Booze and Campfire twice back to back should be enough to convince you. This talent single-handedly makes other talents play off of one another a lot better and it can be use in every single talent build and play style. 
Just keep in mind that this Talent doesn't work on the Skills such as Secret Lair, Teleport to Lair, Deadly Vigilance, Save Portal Point, Portal and Items such as Manual Totem Actives and Potion Cooldowns. 
 
8 - The Fact that it gives Stats makes it amazing, but you want to know about the "every skill has a 10% chance of requiring no cooldown", don't you? Great for Burst Damage(Weapon Throw, Bashing and any other above average damage skill with a long cooldown - like the Kick skill for example ... cough* Deadly Vigilance manual active cough*), Great for Disables (Stunning, Ice bomb, Magic Bomb, Distraction and Net), and Instant recast of Sip of Booze can be incredible since it no longer requires cunning to make the most of it(it does not prolong the duration of the heal over time, instead it just resets it) and it definitely has potential for PVE since every area of effect has skill has a chance for no cooldown, not so good for Finishers(even if you can reuse them, you still need to build up cunning in order to make them effective).
And the downside is painfully obvious: Only 10% chance for the 0 Cooldown feature to proc. If it was 15% this would me a Must have talent but for 10%, I'd keep it as a PVE prioritized talent. In PVP it's not exactly a good idea to rely on a LOW chance of a talent proc and even if it happens there are still counter plays for it since a large portion of combo skills aren't so good on their own without something to build off of. Don't get me wrong it still has it's amazing moments ... but 80% of them are in PVE where relying on a little bit of luck is less punishable.
 
9 - Rewards you with Damage stacks for repeated use of skills with low Cooldown ... it can be combined with almost every other combo/talent/equipment build.
Caution: Direct damage means only the enemy you have highlighted(targeted) will take increased damage from all your attacks, any other enemies taking damage from you through damage over time or area of effect don't take increased damage. This is fantastic for PVP especially 1 on 1 Duels/Pick offs and even Elite/Boss slaying
The one downside is that it encourages Thieves to spend a lot of Energy to make the most of it and you do need some time to set up the full damage bonus(usually 2-3 Seconds to reach 3 Stacks).
 
10 - The talent struggles to retain use with levels unless the player consistently adds Attribute points into Luck as your chances to land a critical strike decrease with each level up.
Great talent from Critical Hit based Builds and with the help of the Gold Lust skill, the Master of Ambush talent from the Robbery talent tree and the Passive Bonus from Weapon throw skill/talent you can extend the duration of your Fury to ludacris lengths.
Also this talent can become an effective Cunning Rush mechanic is combines with the Cruel Blows talent from the Massacre talent tree and ... the Massacre Passive Bonus. 
 
11 - It speaks for itself, just don't forget that this damage bonus applies to skills that are AOE(Area of Effect) not just Single Target skills. Also the Bonus damage can be applied to enemies under Stuns and Immobilization from allies.
It works very well with the Suddenness talent in the Massacre talent tree.
It works better for PVP than PVE simply because your PVE options are limited to only 4( Net skill, using the Chase skill while in Stealth, Stunning skill and the Suddenness talent - 3 of those are single target only) or relying on friends' skills to help you make the most out of the talent when it comes to fighting multiple enemies/grinding for experience. 
It is a very useful talent but sadly an underrated one.
 
12 - Single Target Burst that reduces Enemy Mobility and Damage output. Sometimes it is best to hold on to it until the Enemy is under an effect that reduces their Dodge such as Cold from your Ice Bomb or your Stunning skill if you are afraid the you don't have high enough Hit points to match your Enemy's Dodge points.
Honorably Mentions: The Bonus to the Passive Bonus from Weapon Throw applies to any form of Fury(Master of Ambush talent, Gold Lust skill and Vortex of Strikes talent), Swiftness from Silent Run talent, the Dodge Bonus from the Slyboots talent, the Protection from Blade Dance and Deadly Vigilance, the Resilience from Deadly Vigilance Skill, the Nimbleness from the Sip of Booze skill activation and Trickster talent ... as well as any other buff from party members with a Green Outline around the icon.
The Bonus does not apply to the duration of Massacre, Sip of Booze, Robber's Fire timer for Spring reuse, Grass Chewing Gum, Elixirs and other buffs with a Silver/Iron Outline around the icon.
 
Robbery Talent Tree
 
The Robbery Talent Tree offers Survivability through Defensive such as Evasion, Mobility, Impuissance and Increase in Healing.
 
 
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1 - It's okay as a stand alone talent ... but Unholy Mother of N'aix is it incredible if combined with Robber's Fire, Blinding, Red Hot Weapon talents(from the Massacre talent tree) and Fortune's Favor(from the Fighting talent tree). Helps with taking down enemies regardless if they are players or elites, it stacks quickly and it costs very little energy.
But I must remind that it is essential that you have at least Robber's Fire talent(from the Massacre talent tree) in order to make this talent effective.
 
2 - Incredibly limited to PVP for Roaming/Critical strike builds, but highly effective at that. It is mostly associated with Cunning Rush more than anything.
It can be useful in PVE ... but only once per fight unless you disengage from the fight and restart it ... because that's what a PVE player needs right? A talent that can only be used once for fight.
 
3 - Useful at all stages of the game for recovering health and energy ... as long as you know the difference between Food and Drinks.
Don't forget it can be interrupted by disables(yes, silence is a disable and it will interrupt you from eating), skills that possess the "turmoil" feature and taking a lot of hits(regardless of damage) in a short amount of time.
Might I recommend some "food for thought"?: Eltane Stem or Cotton Candy for health and Holiday Cake or Maple Syrup for energy ... cough* Ambrosia cough*.
 
4 - Strictly for Cunning Rush. A quick way to build and sustain Cunning during combat while forcing you to spend energy that increases based on your energy pool.
Works surprisingly well in combination with the Saboteur and Shadow Lurker talents(from Thievish Tricks talent tree) - You enter Stealth, get near an enemy use the Sabotage skill and you will enter combat for 1-2 seconds(without you having to leave Stealth) during which you use the Leap skill to gain 1 Cunning point and the Shadow Lurker talent prevents you from losing that point while out of combat - a small out of combat trick to help you build full damage on your skills with a finishing feature before you even enter the fight.
The same trick applies to using Sip of Booze with the Knock-Down Booze talent(from the Massacre talent tree) while in Stealth.
 
5 - A talent so amazing that it's worth having for even the rarest moments of unplanned fights. In combination with Robber's Fire(from the Massacre talent tree) or Fortune's Favor(from the Robbery talent tree) it really makes it difficult for certain classes to lock you down.
Of course it has it's limits. It can't really save you from every single disable(cough* that's what Deadly Vigilance's manual activation is for cough*).
A rather important note - Using the Spring skill to dispel Immobilization and Silence will cause the skill to be normally cast, however using the Spring to remove the "Cold" disable will NOT allow you to deal damage with Spring - it will simply move you in the desired direction similarly to the Leap skill for all classes.
And always consider the distance between your current location and the cast point for your Spring skill - if you are immobilized or frozen you can't dispel the disable if your cast point is outside of your reach(10 meters). 
Do we even have to mention the Energy Consumption and Cooldown reduction to the Spring skill when you're low on health? Spamming the Leap skill with the Chase skill and the Springs skill while on low health is a great way to create distance between you and an Enemy.
 
6 - Useful in only 3 Situations:
Situation 1: Farming loot ... probably goes very well with Premium's increased drop rate.
Situation 2: Raw Damage gain ... I mean ... it's okay but if you're really just looking for damage boosting talents there are far better ones in other talent trees that provide more than just a small boost to a single skill.
Situation 3: Using this talent in combination with a few other talents to create a "Superior Sudden Strike" ... basically replacing 1 skill with another(continue reading down more for further details).
 
7 - Think of this as your 4th heal(First Aid, Sip of Booze and Campfire are the other 3 heals). It's based on half the damage dealt meaning it's even more effective if you land a critical strike with Robbery. I will always proc on Enemy players.
The first use of Robbery on an enemy will be RNG(A chance to Lifesteal from half the damage of the Robbery skill), HOWEVER any repeated use of the Robbery skill on an enemy already hit by the skill will always proc the Lifesteal.
The chance to Lifesteal from Robbery is NOT based off of whether or not the skill successfully plundered.
It may not provide damage but the amazing sustain this talent provides more than makes up it.
 
8 - ... it is a rather weak talent. It basically adds the Vulnerability feature from Sudden Strike skill and applies it to the Robbery skill.
Yes, in Combination with the Marauder talent, Stand and deliver talent and the Red Hot Weapon talent(from the Massacre talent tree) it turns the Robbery skill into a superior version of the Sudden Strike skill(except for the fact that you can not proc stacks of the Swasher talent from the Fighting talent tree) that provides slightly higher sustain in battle.
Unless you are using a Shield may I ask: Is it worth Sacrificing 4 talent points just to replace 1 skill and provide a very, very, very tiny heal bonus from the Original Stand and deliver talent heal?
If it's damage increase, Fire Elemental damage and quickly stacking vulnerability that you want then I have a better option for you - the Frantic Spring + Red Hot Weapon + Robber's Fire talent combination(we'll talk about this combo later) - it deals more damage, stacks multiple instances of burning damage over time, stacks far more overall vulnerability, it takes only 3 talent points instead of 4 and get this ... you can actually hit more than 1 enemy with the combo ... wow.
As far as talents go ... this one is very lacking and it's not even that good on it's own.
 
9 - It's as basic as it gets and while the initial heal of Sip of Booze is based off of your attack damage ... why not go all out and just amplify it more, even if it already heals you for more than half your health upon use ... and besides it's not like your other option is any good.
 
10 - Good for a Dexterity build. It also can be combined with the Nimbleness gained from the Sip of Booze skill and the combination between the two can extend the duration of Nimbleness. It's a lone wolf sort of talent ... but ... I don't know, I think I'm just biased against this talent because I prefer the Old Trickster talent(gain Nimbleness when dealing a critical hit - because why would you want to get hit by a critical strike in order to gain a defensive perk).
Could very likely be used as a possible talent for a Dexterity/Evasion built Thief(both for DPS and Semi-Tank play style) ... again this may be just me being biased but I would recommend the following talent more. 
You can't have more than 10 stacks of Nimbleness(40 points of Dodge) any other attempt to add more will simply reset the max duration.
 
11 - Every team player's favorite support talent ... no really this is seriously one of the best talents in a Thief's arsenal. The Impuissance effect not only helps you and your party in terms of survivability, but can even potentially increase your critical damage(if you have the Sucker Punches talent from the Thievish Tricks talent tree) but also your team's damage ... provided that they have talents that grand additional damage based on negative effects on a target. 
I still highly recommend this talent to anyone ranging from solo players to party goers. Heck even if you are going for a Dexterity build you should still take this talent and keep it until you've gotten enough points in Dexterity(through Attributes, Seals, Cards, Equipment etc.) and then change it to Trickster. 
The duration of Impuissance is only 3 seconds but it's reapplied in 1-2 seconds after the debuff wears out.
Combining this talent with the Kick skill(with or without the Dirty Fight talent from the Massacre talent tree) and the Deadly Dance talent(from the Fighting talent tree) allows you to keep an Enemy permanently under the effect of Impuissance by spamming the Blade Dance skill immediately after using the Campfire and Kick skills back to back. 
 
12 - Yeah, yeah great Burst damage with very helpful damage over time debuff that can be combined with other talents(ones from the Massacre and Fighting talent trees) and to top it all off a small dose of counter healing in the form of an Ailment buff.
... and a Passive bonus that provides even more sustain.
If it wasn't so good, this talent description wouldn't have been so short. 
 
Massacre Talent Tree
 
The Massacre Talent Tree favors Crowd Control, Farming Experience from Higher Level or Large groups of Mobs and Consistently Slow Damage that Ignores Evasion using Area of Effect Repetition, Applying Multiple Stacks of Debuffs onto several Targets. 
 
I also need to give a small warning that the Massacre talent tree requires you to frequently put Attribute points in Stamina so that you may have enough energy for it's Combos(We'll get to that later ... believe me).
 
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1 - Although the damage in the talent description gives a direct number, it's still a random number between one lower and one higher than the damage shown in the description. The Damage is Neutral so keep in mind that it can be decreased by enemy armor. 
This talent does NOT have a "Mass Effect" Limitation meaning you can hit more than 5 enemies at once with it as long as they are in range. The damage can come in handy in a PVP fight, but we all use this talent for another purpose - Using it to increase overall Area of Effect damage to farm crowds of enemies faster ... and it's damn good at that.
Yes, it could attract unnecessary mobs to an already large group of enemies targeting you, it could potentially prolong a monster's aggression towards you, but you know what makes this talent far better to the Parry talent(from the Fighting talent tree)? - the fact that it's consistent and semi-manual since you yourself have to decide on when to use the skill that grants the effect of this talent.
 
2 - Mostly used for PVP since most of the features it provides are not exactly effective on mobs.
... Also it's worth mentioning the duration of the Distraction skill's disable for mobs is not effected by this talent(monsters will always be disabled for 5 seconds by the Distraction skill with or without this talent).
It only extends the Net skills Immobilization with 1 second, the Impuissance from the Kick skill by 2 seconds, Distraction skill's Slowdown by 1 second and it's Silence by also 1 second.
 
3 - Great for a Fire Elemental Build and in Combination with the Stronger Charge and Magic Bomb talents(from the Thievish Tricks talent tree), Frantic Spring and Bashing talents(from the Robbery talent tree), Blinding, Robber's Fire, Cruel Blows, Mass Intoxication and Massacre talents - you can keep and enemy permanently under 4 stacks of Bleeding, 4 stacks of Poion, 8-10 stacks of Vulnerability, 4 stacks of Burning and up to 16 seconds of Blinding ... and you want to know the best part? You don't need every single talent I just listed, you only need Magic Bomb, Bashing or even the Massacre skills/talents to make it happen. So why did I list them? - just to show how many Amazing talent combinations are possible with this one.
Though ... as a stand alone talent ... it's Above Average, so hey why not give it a try?
 
4 - Strong Disable for Initiation. No really ... that's about it. The bleeding and poison debuffs prevent the enemy from immediately removing the Immobilization by your Net skill. It's also good for countering Invisible units with but damage over time debuff breaking their Stealth, however this may only work if you land the Net skill after the enemy has entered stealth due to the fact that some of them applying Purification upon entering stealth(hint-hint Assassins with their own version of the Escape talent).
Contrary to popular belief the Bleeding and Poison duration of this talent are not increased by the added bonus from the Dirty Fight talent. 
You can also combine this talent with the Massacre passive bonus, the Meat Grinder and Butcher(talents from the Fighting talent tree), helps to prolong the use of the Cruel Blows talent and works well with the Sucker Punch talent(from Thievish Tricks talent tree) as the 3 instant negative buffs help reach the maximum critical damage bonus from the talent. 
 
5 - A very shallow talent as a stand alone one, only useful for combining it the use of the Robbery skill or Dexterity/Evasion builds ... but Combine this talent with Robber's Fire and it becomes a tool for survival for you alone or your party.
Typically favored for PVE and Shield based play style.
Fun fact: The game treats this talent the same way it does the Assassin's version of it, so it counts as 2 talents in 1(I'm not joking about this, it's been in the game for a year and a half) except it's nothing really exciting about it - The Assassin's version is "When the Assassin enters stealth mode enemies withing range are affected by Blinding for 6 seconds", and that applies to you if you pick this talent despite the Thief's class version of it - entering Stealth will cause nearby go Blind(you have to be in melee range and they have to not be hostile so ... good luck trying to use this "clearly intended feature" when you have only 1 Stealth mode option and it's a Non-Combat type).
 
6 - A PVP talent for initial and secondary lockdown. Simple as that.
 
7 - ... Combine this talent with the Frantic Spring and Escape talents(from the Robbery talent tree), Red Hot Weapon, Blinding and Massacre talents and if you still can't see how amazing it is for farming large groups of mobs or even mobs higher level than you then I suggest re-reading the descriptions I gave for the talents listed in this one. This talent ... single-handedly(well ... almost there is one more honorable mention) turned the Massacre talent tree to one of the best builds for PVE. 
... the extra Campfire range is ... okay but that's not really the main selling point.
And one more thing ... you don't even need your own Campfire in order to benefit from this Talent, you can use another Thief's Campfire(as long as they are in your party) since the talent is based on Aura not Skill activation.
 
8 - "... struggles to retain use with levels unless the player consistently adds Attribute points into Luck as your chances to land a critical strike decrease with each level up." But in combination with the Bashing talent(from the Robbery talent tree), Thorny Net and Massacre talents along with the skill Bloody strike skill it can really increase your overall damage per second.
But as a stand alone talent it is ... rather weak. Mostly due to it's long cooldown forcing you to either use one of the listed skills/talents listed above or rely on a lucky critical strike in the span of 1 second before the debuff runs out.
Even if we ignore the other talents and skills used to support this talent, it's still very flawed in design due to the long cooldown - Are you really going to wait up to 15 seconds just for one of your debuffs to deal decent damage? What if you get interrupted then what? Start all over?
Despite my complaining it's an Okay talent mostly because of the possible combinations listed above that can help prolong the damage over time infinitely.
Recommended that you use Dual Weapons as your auto attacks count for 2 with each of them having a chance to crit and thus apply the talent.
But what makes this talent better than the next one is that secretly this talent can be used as a Cunning rush.
 
9 - A talent very similar to the Meat Grinder talent(from the Fighting talent tree) where specific damage sources are increased while a single target is under a specific condition.
This talent is only useful if combined with the Adder Strike skill, the Magic Bomb talent(from the Thievish Tricks talent tree), Thorny Net and Mass Intoxication talents(from the Massacre talent tree) ... and in case you're not counting that's 1 less talent combination than the Meat Grinder talent and 1 less damage source(this talent provides 2, while the Meat Grinder talent provides 3).
While I can confirm the fact that keeping an Enemy permanently under the effect of Poison thanks to a single talent(Mass Intoxication ... no really ... we'll get to that amazing talent in a minute), keeping and Enemy permanently under the effect of bleeding is not as easy(granted it's not hard but it is more pattern restricted in comparison): Bloody Strike's cooldown is 10 sec and the bleeding duration is 6 sec, Massacre's cooldown is 35 sec and the bleeding duration is 5 sec(but the duration of the on hit bleeding buff is 15 seconds, so realistically it's cooldown is 20), The Net skill(if you have the Thorny Net talent)'s cooldown is 30 sec and the bleeding duration is 7 sec, Bashing's cooldown is 1 minute and the bleeding duration is 3 sec. The Bashing skill/talent is not necessary. However you need at least 2 talents(Thorny Net and Massacre), I would also recommend having the Deadly Dance talent(from the Fighting talent tree) to help you reuse the skills that apply Bleeding quicker. Timing the Bloody Strike skill and only 1 of the talents (Thorny Net or Massacre) will prolong the effect of bleeding, but not long enough to make it permanent(unless you have and use the Deadly Dance talent), thus making one of features of the Painful Wounds talent inconsistent.
And while theoretically possible for this talent to outdo the Cruel Blows talent in terms of overall damage, the fundamental difference between Cruel Blows and Painful Wounds is that Painful Wounds encourages you to constantly skills and depletes your Energy quicker, while Cruel Blows encourages a slower but more secure damage over time that is dependent on Luck Attribute points, doesn't force you to use up any energy(unless you have the Massacre talent and are using skills to gain double the Cunning points ... we'll get to that in a bit as well) and can be used a supporting talent for other combinations ... the Cruel Blows talent is more new player friendly, so there. Happy? Now get off my back about it.
 
10 - Amazing ... simply amazing. This talent alone makes you keep an Enemy permanently under the effect of Posion. Let me explain. The Adder Strike skill applies Poison on a target and it's duration is based off of the Cunning points used up for the skill(2 Seconds of Poison for each point of Cunning spent) - You build full Cunning, use Adder Strike and you apply 3 Stacks of Poison(1 stack from the skill itself + 2 stacks from the Mass Intoxication talent proc) for 12 seconds, but wait ... it gets even better - since adding another stack of Poison always resets the duration of the debuff to the longest it's ever been all you have to do is hit the your Enemy with another skill that has the Finishing Blow feature(regardless of how many points of Cunning were spent on that skill) and you instantly add 1/2 more stacks of Poison(you can not exceed 4 stacks of poison without the help of a friend) AND you reset the duration of all the Poison stacks back to 12 seconds.
Skills with the Finishing Blow feature are Sudden Strike, Adder Strike and Robbery - 3 ways to prolong maximum stacks of Poison infinitely, not to mention if you have the Magic Bomb skill/talent(from the Thievish talent tree) or the Thorny Net talent you can use them instead of your Finisher skills to reset the Poison duration.
Let's check that theory now, shall we? - The Maximum duration of Poison caused by Adder Strike is 12 Seconds(if the skill was used at Max Cunning), the Cooldown for Adder Strike is 12 sec, Sudden Strike's cooldown is 8 sec and Robbery's cooldown is also 8 sec(We're not even counting the Net and Magic Bomb cooldowns because they are unnecessary if your goal is to keep the Enemy permanently under Poison). As you can see ... the only way an Enemy can break free of your Poison debuff is if you're not paying attention.
This talent works well with ... obviously the Magic Bomb, Spider Poison, Sucker Punches and Poisoned Wounds(from the Thievish talent tree), the Deadly Dance and Penetrating Strikes talents(from the Fighting talent tree) though the cooldown reduction is a tad unnecessary, the Thorny Net and Painful Wounds talents ... and if you wanna go nuts the Master of Ambush(from the Robbery talent tree) talent, the Secret Operations and Vortex of Strikes(from the Fighting talent tree) talents because oh right damage over time debuffs cough* Burning, Posion and Bleeding cough* can crit ... and it also hurts a lot when it's at max stacks.
Also worth mentioning is that this helps out when clearing groups of monsters and the fact that the talent proc and the damage over time can NOT miss is just the Cherry on the Cake.
... okay there may or may not be a bug where the talents of other players may or may not drop the maximum duration(because you know it's a bug when a timer goes from 11 seconds to 6 seconds in the blink of eye) but this bug is very rare and most of the time it's from Warlocks and Assassins ... so try to communicate with them.
 
11 - A mediocre talent that is overshadowed by literally every other talent in terms of damage sources or every other damage over time/perk based off of Bleeding and Poison. I'm sorry there is nothing more to say about this talent ... it was shallow when it first came out(even when Thief's talent tree was different) and it's arguably in worse state today.  
 
12 - It's as simple as it gets in terms of description. It is a good talent combo for Robber's Fire, Thorny Net, Cruel Blows, Painful Wounds , Dissection(... congratulations ... I guess that talent has small purpose after all), Sucker Punches(from the Thievish talent tree), Meat Grinder, Butcher and Vortex of Strikes talents(from the Fighting talent tree), Master of Ambush and Bashing(from the Robbery talent tree) ... you think that's enough? Now obviously you can't combine Massacre with all of the listed talents - we will discuss this in the Next part of the Talents Topic so be sure to read that as well.
The Massacre active also affects all your Area of effect abilities and since AOE skills can't miss(unless you are off target), all AOE skills with the active buff from Massacre can apply Bleeding to Multiple enemies not just one and all the skills used have a high chance of applying damage over time, it makes the Massacre a great tool for consistent damage and for farming monsters higher level than you.
The Massacre passive bonus for adding 1 point of Cunning if you land a Critical strike on a bleeding enemy also applies to damage over time abilities allowing you to build Cunning from an already bleeding enemy without even being near them. 
While we're still on the Subject of the Massacre passive bonus the Cunning gained from hitting a bleeding enemy with a Critical strike is predetermined ... okay, so what does that mean? Let's use this combination of talents as an example: You have the Massacre and Cruel blows talents, you are about to engage an enemy and your first attack on them has a 100% chance of being a Critical(...just go with it, this is an exaggeration just for you to understand it better), you hit the enemy with a single basic skill like Lunge for example and boom ... you just gained 2 points of cunning instead of 1. Due to the way damage calculations work having the Cruel blows talent combined with the Massacre passive means that every time you land a critical strike with a skill you are guaranteed 2 points of Cunning(except for when the Massacre passive bonus is on cooldown ... dude, seriously 1.5 seconds can barely be considered a cooldown).
You can not exceed more than 4 stacks of Bleeding without the help of a friend.
Oh right, quick update: It's also worth nothing that the Bleeding over time is not affected by damage decrease - if the Skill/Attack/Passive Talent applied Bleeding to a target before the damage decrease takes effect then you still deal full damage over time. And the same goes for the opposite effect - if you apply Bleeding to a target before you gain bonus damage then the damage over time caused by Bleeding will not increase.
 
Thievish Tricks Talent Tree
 
Now I know what you're thinking: "Why would you put this talent tree at the Bottom. Shouldn't this be the first talent tree be the first to be discussed since it's the only available talent tree to Rogues when they start out?" to which I would say yes, to an extent you have a valid point but as you level up and the course of the game progresses this talent tree slowly becomes a Support talent tree ... No, you fool! Not the heal and babysit you type of Support. I mean as a Support tree for your other talent trees and play style.
The truth of the matter is that the Thievish Tricks talent tree is a Jack of all trades ... no really it can provide you with almost anything - Need talents for gaining and sustaining Cunning? - it has it, need damage Raw and/or Critical? - it's there last time I checked, need Elemental damage? - oh got those as well, need some Area of Effect damage? - oh what a surprise there is some, need Survivability and/or Initiation options through Disables? - you already know the answer to that. But a Jack of all trades always means that it's individual mechanics are not strong enough to carry a play style on their own ... let me give you an example:
Are you really telling that an Assassin who goes for a Poison build play style would max out Thievish Tricks just to get 2 Poison talents and completely ignore his "POISON" talent tree? Because if the Thievish Tricks talent tree was strong enough to carry a build on it's own without the need to combine with another talent tree that's offering the same build. No, instead the Assassin would simply combine the Thievish Tricks talent tree with the Poison talent tree at which point the Thievish Tricks talent tree is considered a Support to the Poison talent tree with only a few features to increase it's potential, it's purpose and expand upon it while also providing other non poison features to help boost alternative methods to provide a backup in case said play style falters. That is called Root Supporting and that's what the Thievish Tricks talent tree excels at.
... want me to flip the coin?
Are you really telling that a Thief wants a build with more Survival would just max out Thievish Tricks just to get 2 or 3 talents based on a small amount of Dodge points and 2 Disables while ignoring the Robbery talent tree that provides Mid Combat Health/Energy recovery, an Escape from 3 commonly used disables for Initiation, Lifesteal, Increase in Healing, Decrease in enemy damage or even a Evasion/Dodge boost? ... see what I mean? You don't go for one, you combine the two by making one of them Root Support the other(I call it Root Support Simply as a Pun on Trees).
... you get the idea. With all said and done you can completely ignore the Thievish talent tree, yes it's effective in almost every situation but it's not a necessity since it can't really excel on it's own and you may be sacrificing talent points to talents that don't fit your play style just to boost something that is in your playstyle.
Simply put this is the talent tree that has both pros and cons.
Never the less. I highly recommend maxing this talent tree and keeping it so, until you reach level 40. Why? Because until then you lack the total amount of talent points to form a play style, possibly lacking enough attributes to support said play style and by then you will have unlocked all the Thief class' skills(except for Deadly Vigilance). ... What ... you're telling me you'd rather instantly max Massacre at level 20 instead of Thievish Tricks while half the skills needed to proc the talents from Massacre talent tree are still locked? ... same question goes for the Robbery talent tree.
Stick with the Thievish talent tree until level 40, then on your way to level 50 start experimenting with different build though talent and Attribute changes and when you reach level 50 it will be time to start refining your play style.
Every play style has it's ups and downs but we'll get to that in another part of this topic.
... and to make it clear I'm not forcing anyone to forever stick with the Thievish Tricks talent tree or forcing anyone to abandon said talent tree ... okay, we good? Right, then let's wrap this up.
 
 
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1 - Great for Fire Elemental damage(both initial and over time) which means it could be used in a Fire damage build ... obviously and it's fantastic for farming mobs(both equal or higher level than you). Works very well with the Saboteur talent and the Deadly Dance(from the Fighting talent tree) + Red Hot Weapon + Robber's Fire talent combination(from the Massacre talent tree) for keeping an Enemy permanently under the effect of Burning.
Fun fact/exploit: The "Targets caught in the blast suffer from Burning for ..." is a LIE, the radius of this talent is slightly larger than the damage blast radius from the Sabotage skill ... translation - you can ignite Enemies with this talent even if they do not take damage from the Sabotage skill as long as they are nearby. Not an easy to showcase exploit, but it can be noticed fairly easily often when it happens ... good luck finding more than a handful of people using this talent ... thanks Edgelords.
It is a rather underrated talent because it's not restricted to just PVE, it is useful in PVP as well.
 
2 - Bonus damage for 2 Single target skills, lucky for the Rogues that those are the Most if not Two of the Most used skills in their arsenal. Whether or not the damage increase to Lunge and Sudden Strike is enough to match or exceed the damage from the Stronger Charge talent on a basis level is debatable, but it is undeniable that this talent outperform the Stronger Charge talent IF the user is going for a High Critical Chance or Critical Damage build(...or both ... you never know ... actually you can if you just inspect them). 
It tends to be more associated with Elite/Boss farming and PVP since the longer the fight drags on the more damage you'll output with these skills.
Talents for combining with this one are mostly ones that provide critical chance and/or damage ... because got to get that crit damage boosted, am I right? ... please laugh ... Master of Ambush(from the Robbery talent tree), Vortex of Strikes(from the Fighting talent tree) and Sucker Punches if you're going for a build to burst down a Single Target with Critical Strikes and the only other talents that go well with Fencing that are not associated with Critical Strikes are Swasher and Cold Blood(from the Fighting talent tree) ... I'm not counting the talents Butcher and Cutthroat(both also from the Fighting talent tree) because those apply to all damage skills not just Lunge and Sudden Strike, but if you're using all 4 Noncritical talents just prove that Fencing is better than Stronger Charge, then congratulations you are making the Fencing talent seem weaker in comparison for needing so many talents to help it achieve maximum benefit. 
Ever felt Deja vu? Well you're about to. Similar to a previous talent comparison - Fencing encourages frequent use of Energy, while Stronger Charge only requires it once in a while and in certain situations. In short the Stronger Charge talent is more newcomer friendly.
 
3 - Cunning Rush mostly used in Critical Strike or spam heavy Finisher skill builds ... no really that's about it, why are you still reading this?
 
4 - Well ... it um ... works ... well with the ... Stronger Charge talent ... yeah ... I got nothing on this.
The Stealth feature is almost useless unless in combination with the Shadow Lurker and Feinting(from the Robbery talent tree) talent in order to start building Cunning from the ground up without losing it or leaving Stealth ... and even then this talent is overshadowed by the Knock-Down Booze talent(from the Massacre talent tree) which does the combo better, helps build Cunning faster and can provide extra damage to fighting swarms of enemies. Not to mention that unless you engage a Monster in Combat(aka leave Stealth) they will just regain their health like it was nothing. If it's a player ... well you either have to be right in their face to make use of the Stealthy action of this talent(in which case you will be fully visible to them) or ... you can wait for 5 hours for them to walk over your trap(which does have a rather small radius), or ... use the Sabotage skill, reposition, exit Stealth mode and bait your enemy into walking into your trap when they run towards you ... you still have the element of surprise ... but not as big as it could have been if you just engaged with other skills that sync better with Stealth.
Still ... it is ... Okay when it comes to stacking Vulnerability onto multiple Enemies ... unless you have the Frantic Spring(from the Robbery talent tree) + Robber's Fire(from the Massacre talent tree) talent combination which does overall more damage, can apply more than just Vulnerability, stacks even more Vulnerability and provides movement while also allowing you to chose your place of damage ... and if all you want is to quickly stack Vulnerability onto just 1 target(... I don't know why you would want that) but you still have better alternatives - the Sudden Strike skill and the Robber(from the talent tree) talent.
How do you choose between a 1 talent that is half-useless and another that may or may not fit your play style? ... Well if you're not going for a Critical chance/damage build then pick this talent to help with clearing up Enemies.
I do believe that Assassins prefer the Insatiable Thirst since most of them go from Critical Strike builds by default ... but also the Gold Lust into Shadow Leap skill combination probably sealed the deal for them.
 
5 - Okay let's be honest, you don't really have much of a choice when it comes to this talent and the next one. Both of them support a Roaming/Pick off play style but one of them is for aggressive preference and the other is for defensive.
... this is the aggressive one mostly associated with build full Cunning before entering or while in Stealth mode(Building Cunning without leaving Stealth can be accomplished by frequent use of the Chase skill, the Gold Lust skill(if you have the Insatiable Thirst talent) and the Leap skill(if you have the Feinting + Knock-Down Booze/Saboteur talent combination)) and just go all in on a target with the idea to burst them down before they have a chance to react. But in comparison with the next talent that's up to come, this one tends to be more favorable towards Thieves than Assassins(I'm not saying that it's useless on Assassins) due to the fact that Thief's default unique class skills favor Disabling and Sustain allowing you to stand your ground upon leaving stealth.
 
6 - Well, I already emphasized my view on both of this talent and the one before it, so let's keep this short. Yes, this is a defensive talent for Roaming/Pick off play style and while it can be used on Thieves quite well, it's more effective on Assassins in the longer run, because they can make use of the this talent up to 4 times(Every time you exit Stealth the duration of the Slyboots talent boost is reset to 10 seconds ... now multiply that duration by 3 or 4) since they can have 4 versions of Stealth( yes, the Shadow Dungeon skill/talent DOES count as Stealth since it does proc the Slyboots talent, but for the sake of an argument let's theorize if an Assassin didn't pick the Shadow Dungeon skill/talent ) - they still have 3 sure forms of Stealth - your Normal Out of Combat Stealth, their Mid Combat Stealth(which drains their Energy if they stay in it for too long) and their "Second life" type of Stealth, so yeah Assassins can make better use from this talent since they can proc is more often. 
And while we're on the topic yes, the Shadow Lurker talent is also good on Assassins and it's honestly their own preference as to what they pick ... regarding a Thief such as you however is based on play style of what you pick. I would recommend staying with the Slyboots talent as backup plan if caught unprepared by other players or monsters high enough levels to see you. When you reach level 40 then you can decide on if you want to switch to the Shadow Lurker talent, keep this one or just start a new from another talent tree since by then you will have unlocked every Thief skill(with the exception of Deadly Vigilance that comes at level 65), you'll have more talent points to spend and you'll have enough attribute points to start defining your very own play style.
 
7 - Yeap ... this is a good one, though it does favor Critical Strike based builds and it is mostly directed at a single target thus making it a PVP/Elite farming oriented, it's still amazing it terms of damage.
Literally any skill or talent that provides a debuff/negative buff(any icon under an enemy's health that has it's outer lines in Red NOT Gray) is going to be a good combination with this talent: Bloody Strike, Gold Lust, Ice Bomb, Adder Strike, Stunning, Kick, Robbery, Net, Distraction, Magic Bomb, Weapon Throw, Bashing and Massacre in terms of skills that negative effects from skills, as far as talents go - Stronger Charge, Spider Poison, Caustic Smoke, Thorny Net, Red Hot Weapon, Blinding, Suddenness, Cruel Blows and Mass Intoxication.
... Don't forget you're not the only one who can afflict an Enemy with debuffs, when a lot of players contribute to attack the same target you benefit a lot.
And obviously this talent scales incredibly with every level up, making it more and more effective ... and only a little bit effective if you're low level.
 
8 - Survivability in the form of an extended disable. It's perfect for PVE and decently effective in PVP since half the classes possess a talent to help dispell the Cold duration entirely not just from themselves but from other targets as well. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great talent, but if you become overly dependent on it then you are just digging your own grave.
 
9 - Yeap, 95% PVP talent from Roaming/Pick off play styles, because every PVE Thief will tell you that you can use a Mount while in stealth to negate the movement speed penalty in Stealth. And yes, with active buffs a Thief with the Silent Run talent can go much faster than one with a Mount in stealth, it's ... not really necessary unless you're trying to do naughty and particular things cough* Speed Running through Solo Family Crypt mobs and using Summoning stones to teleport your party directly to the Bosses without having to clear the Dungeon cough* sorry, I've been coughing a lot in this article, I must be getting sick or something.
 
10 - These two talents are very simple and effective so let's go over them. They both require an Enemy to be under the effect of Poison, but the features these two talents provide are entirely different. First off we have the Spider Poison talent ... "... struggles to retain use with levels unless the player consistently adds Attribute points into Luck as your chances to land a critical strike decrease with each level up." I think you've heard this before somewhere, don't you? Offers great disabling potential and it's gets better in the longer run(if you're playing by a Critical Strike build). I should mention that 6 out 10 times you will only be able to apply this talent's effect only on 1 target - the other times you'll be able to apply the effect onto Multiple Enemies though a combination of Area of Effect Poison(Magic Bomb, Thorny Net and Mass Intoxication talents) and talents that let you apply damage over time onto multiple enemies at once(I'm referring to the talents Red Hot Weapon, Throny Net(hello again), Stronger Charge and Massacre(with a small boost from the Robber's Fire talent)) because oh right ... damage over time can crit.
 
11 - Literally the same condition as the Spider Poison talent but with another benefit ... increased damage. Very simple and easy to use at all stages of the game. You already know which talents go well with this one ... but in case you don't (Magic Bomb, Thorny Net and Mass Intoxication).
Both the Spider Poison and Poisoned Wounds talents are useful in PVP in different ways but the Poisoned Wounds talent tends to give a bigger advantage towards PVE than Spider Poison simply because it increases the damage of an Element(yes Poison is considered an element) which with the help of other talent combinations can easily spread onto Multiple Enemies.
 
12 - First of all let me remind you that the Passive Attribute stats this talent provides are absurd in the early game. It provides Survivability in the form of a short Disable(although the disable can drop to less than 3 seconds if an Enemy or all affected Enemies take too much damage, so don't overplay your cards), while providing raw damage, elemental damage(which we all should know what you can combine with by now), just like any other AOE skill it can be used to counter Evasion/Dodge and it gives Critical chance. It's a thing of beauty really, useful in both PVE and PVP both for the same reasons. The only thing inconsistent about this talent is the movement patterns on Enemies hit by this skill/talent.
Works great with the Spider Poison, Poisoned Wounds, Deadly Dance, Fortune's Favor, Thorny Net and Mass Intoxication talents.
Should be used with caution, something as simple as forced enemy repositioning can always backfire in many ways.

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#2 Morŧred (Elgore)

Morŧred (Elgore)

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:37 PM

Welcome to Part 2 - Talent Groups:
 
... okay so ... I think the best way to quickly explain this part of the Guide is via Q&A:
 
Q: What is a Talent Group?
A: Talents that all associated with a Specific play style are what I like to call a Talent Group. It takes multiple Talents to form one Group.
 
Q: Is this a simplified version of part 1 from the Guide?
A: Both Yes and No. Part 1 of the Guide is more detailed on how the Talents actually work by themselves and in combination with one another whereas here they are displayed under who falls under what category.
 
Q: Can I have all the Talents from a Certain Group?
A: Mmmm ... I guess yes if you count 1 category out of 6. However since you only get a total of 18 Talent Points at Max Level, most of the categories are Impossible to be completely acquired. And even if they reworked Thief's Talent tree in a way that did allow it, I wouldn't recommend going out on a certain play style since the more you on a certain play style the easier you are to Counter build. I recommend going for your preferred play style but have a backup Talent Group for a secondary play style in case of situations that don't favor your primary ... actually ... the more I think about it ... please do go for 1 specific play style, because I don't think anyone on our server even tries to make Counter builds(... keep in mind just because they don't Counter build against your play style doesn't mean that they don't know how to).
 
Q: I am confused by the layout. Can you elaborate?
A: Okay it's very Simple. Just follow these 4 Rules to Talent Grouping:
1 - If a Talent is FULLY Outlined by a Circle/Square then it fits the requirements for the listed play style.
2 - If a Talent is HALF Outlined by a Circle/Square then it does fit the requirements for the listed play style BUT is not as good as other alternatives and/or they are mostly used for as a BACKUP version of the listed play style.
3 - If a Talent is HALF Outlined by a Circle/Square AND is connected to a wire leading up to another FULLY Outlined Talent then the HALF Outlined Talent only fits the requirements of the play style if it is combined with the FULLY Outlined Talent.
4 - If a Talent is not Outlined at all then it does not fit the requirements of the listed play style.
 
... You see? Simple. Now let's get the show on the road(don't worry this won't be as long as Part 1 of the Guide) and let's start with the less complicated ones while we're at it.
 
Cunning Rush - Used to build full Cunning quickly in order to quickly burst down a target with low Cooldown Skills that have the Finisher feature.
Sadly that's about it, before the Sip of Booze Skill used to require 1 to 4 points of Cunning in order to gain different amounts of healing and dispels(the more points of Cunning you spent the more healing over time you got and for every point of Cunning you dispelled 1 negative buff). This restricted Thieves who didn't use Cunning Rush Talents into either fully committing to high burst damage with low healing or low burst damage with high healing(Burst damage being 1 instance of damage).
But since the rework(... actually it's more of a re-balance because a rework means something to be completely different from what it originally was) of the Sip of Booze Skill Thieves no longer have to worry about Balancing Cunning is healing(there is only 1 exception to this but it can just barely be considered an exception - the Stand and Deliver Talent) and as of that the Cunning Rush play style has lost priority and maybe it's for the better.
 
Requirement: Talents must grant point/s of Cunning in any way shape or form.
Spoiler
 
 
Saboteur - A build used for chaining strong and weak disables ... it's kind of self explanatory.
Strong Disables are Skills/Talents that are ones that prevent enemies from using Skills or Actions.
Weak Disables are Skills/Talents that are ones that decrease an Enemy's overall damage, healing and mobility.
 
Requirement: Talents must provide Strong, Weak Disables or at the very least a way to Support/Prolong other Disables.
Spoiler
 
 
Elementalist - ... the description of the build is right there in the name ... 
In case you have not noticed Thief's default Elemental damage is based on Fire and Poison, no other Talent provides other types of Elemental damage.
And no, Bleeding is NEUTRAL damage meaning it doesn't count as Elemental ... it even says it in your Character Window in the Extra Section.
PS: This is the only Talent Group that can be fully acquired ... possibly because it's very shallow.
 
Requirement: Talents must provide Elemental damage, duration or at the very least the ability to apply the Elemental damage on a target.
Spoiler
 
 
Survivalist - Wow ... it's almost like I don't have to explain this one. Crazy, right?
Contrary to what you think, it's not devoted to only Shield Thieves all kinds of play styles benefit from this one as a backup. Heck even Shield Thieves don't really make this play style their primary ... but we've yet to see one who fully commits Tanking and Only tanking.
Funny thing is ... for an extraordinary ability such as a Non-Warrior class being able to equip a Shield ... there really aren't ... any talents based on Shield equipping.
 
Requirement: Talents must provide Evasion, decrease in Enemy damage, some form of defense, a boost to Healing or anything that can buy you some time for re-positioning/resetting a fight without forcing anyone but your Enemies to damage.
Spoiler
 
 
Critical Mass - ... sorry I couldn't resist to make that joke ... please laugh ... I swear I'm funny.
Okay this one is kind of a mixed bag, since I decided to combine Talents associated with Critical damage and Critical chance into one.
Due to this there are two separate Requirements for these play styles.
 
Critical damage Requirement: Talents must be Connected to the Sucker Punches talent and need to provide the ability to apply a Negative buff on an enemy in order to increase the efficiency of the Sucker Punches talent due to it being the only Talent that increases Critical damage.
Critical chance Requirement: Talents must provide ... Critical hit ... chance or ... a buff ... that provides Critical hit ... chance ... such as Fury ... wow ... that um ... didn't really sound as impactful as I thought ... but there are still enough of those Talents to form their own group so ... it's still valid ... I guess.
Spoiler
 
 
Death dealer - Basically a Damage Boost.
The Easiest to explain but also the Hardest to pin down by their individual merits. 85% of this play style is based on Equipment and/or Attribute preferences.
 
Requirement: Literally any talent that provides damage in some way, shape, form, condition or anything that increases the amount of damage done by your party to a target.
Spoiler

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#3 Morŧred (Elgore)

Morŧred (Elgore)

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:37 PM

Welcome to part 3 Thief-Unique Skills
 
Every single class has it's own unique set of Skills and Thief is no exception. We're going through all of the default Thief Skills. I'm going to assume that you already know the Basics of Rogue Skills(by that I mean the Shared level 1 to 20/22 Skills that both Assassins and Thieves start out with), because how else would you have made it far enough to choose the Thief profession?
 
Here is a very short and simple run through of all the Thief class's unique Skills:
n0NQp8F.png
Now let's go over them 1 by 1 from Left to Right(which coincidentally is their order of unlocking):
 
1 - Yes, the Passive capability of a Thief to be able to equip a Shield and take on a new role is something as a Semi/Real Tank is demented. What other class other than Crusaders and Dark Knights can equip a Shield, Assassins can't, Archers(Snipers and Hunters) can't, but a Thief can ... what's that? Mages can equip Orbs and those can provide Stats and Defense while also being classified as Clothing just like Shields? Oh I'm sorry, could you name me a Mage(Sorcerer/Warlock) Skill that Requires an Orb to be equipped or a Skill that gains an Extra Feature if the user has an Orb equipped? ... you can't, can you? How exactly does it benefit anyone but you again? Can it change Aggro? Does it allow you to interrupt channels? Oh wait can it... you get the idea. Case closed.(... Wow, that sounded a lot meaner than what I originally intended ... Note to self: Delete that last part before posting it online.
Sadly this is something that is incredibly underutilized by everyone to the point where most people just ignore Thief's ability to equip a Shield as if the option does not exist.
It ... it's very honestly hard to depict a Shield play style since ... well ... let me put it this way: In order to review and do it Justice you have to put in a lot of Gold, Time and Effort. You can't just say "Oh I'm just going to equip this newly acquired Shield and if it work for me the way I want then it's a useless feature. You have to seal it, upgrade it, insert a Card into it and devote hours of play time experimenting with Skills and Talent combinations to see what works for you and what doesn't. As of writing this I have almost all of the ingredients(yes even a Stabilizer) to craft my Future Slotted Shield ... the only part I am missing is the Shield itself ... and I've been doing dungeons and farming for days and still not one has dropped. So my experience with a Shield is rather ... "limited" ... let's call it like that. So take this with a grain of salt.
You must have at least 2 Talents to be an effective tank - The Deadly Dance talent from the Fighting talent tree and the Stand and Deliver talent from the Robbery talent tree.
 
2 - Stunning - Oh this is a very complicated Skill to explain but I'm going to try my best - it's a stun ... wow that was hard. Jokes aside it's a great single target disable with low Energy Cost and below average Damage. A stunned unit can not evade any attacks, but the Stunning Skill itself can miss. Try using Ice Bomb first and then follow up with Stunning right as about the Cold duration ends to secure hits on a target with high evasion if you don't have available Area of Effect Skills ready. It will work on Elite enemies but not on Bosses.
 
3 - Campfire - The Bonus Armor from this Skill scales off of your Level making this skill very helpful at every stage of the game. The Campfire's duration is 20 seconds and it's cooldown is 30 seconds. With the combination of this Skill with the talent "Deadly Dance"(from the Fighting talent tree) you can have it's cooldown down to 3 seconds ... unless you use the Skill Blade Dance immediately after using the Campfire skill and then using the Blade Dance again as soon as it comes off cooldown and you can use the Campfire Skill before it even expires.
Don't forget that the healing from this Skill is Max Health Percentage based, meaning it's more effective the larger your Health Pool is. 
Hint*-hint* they either really wanted you to build Stamina on Thief or the Healing for the Campfire Skill is not exactly up to date with current Dexterity meta ... you decide.
Oh yeah ... right. You can only have only 1 Campfire Aura at a time, the healing over time stays the same ... but since the bonus armor scales based on level it causes a bug where the bonus armor switches around - let's say for example you are a level 65 Thief and in your party you have a level 36 Thief. Both of you use the Campfire Skill and every second it switches between the 2 armor buffs, so one second you'll have +2098 Armor and the next you'll have +600 Armor ... that is not normal but it's clear they are trying to overwrite each other ... and a friend of mine said that this bug has been in the game for a long time ... nice. My only advice to avoiding this is don't let the Lower level Thief use his Campfire Skill or have him use it when yours runs out ... in other words Communicate with each other.
 
4 - Sip of Booze ------ Obviously the Initial Heal is based off of your Attack Power ... which is largely based off of your Strength.
And just like the Campfire Skill, Sip of Booze's Healing over time is Max Health Percentage based.
While you can easily Argue that it works well with Stamina Builds, don't forget that it still offers 4 stacks of Nimbleness(AKA almost half of the max number of stacks for Nimbleness which is 10). 
Caution: Be careful when using this Skill while exiting a Map. If you use Sip of Booze the second you enter a new map or exit one, the skill be on cooldown however you will NOT receive the initial heal or the heal over time from it ... it's been like this for years and I've reported it a ton of times ... what else can I do?
... Wow, is it me or are all Thief's Default Heals bugged in some way?
 
5 - ... look at this Skill ... now look at the Elite/Boss that's shredding your Party's Tank ... now make yourself useful and use this Skill on the Elite/Boss. It's not a God Tier Fight turner but it's enough to provide some sustain to your team when something goes wrong, giving you some time to re-heal, reposition(more than you would have done without the use of this Skill) or just make tanking easier for everything on your Party not just your Tank.
It is a single target only skill and while that makes it difficult to decide on who to use it in a crowded Battleground/Arean/War Zone, the damage and Critical chance reduction from the Skill is surprisingly more effective on PVP. Try to target the ones with really high damage outputs ... just keep in mind that it can be dispelled very easily if you don't apply another negative buff on the enemy ... and make sure that you won't just dive the Enemy back lines only to be instantly targeted by everyone.
And how about you equip a Shield once in a while to keep your friends from getting targeted and actually save some lives if your friends are not well equipped with the situation, maybe it will work out better than expected ... or maybe you'll just die from overestimating your Skill timing, Armor and Lack of Coordination ... but you'll still be remembered as a Hero ... until they trade you in for a better tank.
 
6 - Yeap, this is your go to Skill for "Spam for Maximum Damage". It has Great Damage, EXTREMELY low cooldown and an Average Energy cost. Keep in mind that you may only cast this Skill if you have 2 Weapons equipped, so don't equip a Shield hoping to maximize damage over survivability.
The only real question is: Do you have enough Energy to sustain this Skill's spam.
 
7 - Area of Effect skill, useful when fighting Enemies with higher Dodge Stats that your Hit Stats, can be used for Mobility, very limited Skill combinations if you use it as an Initiation
Before it was just a basic skill for slight Combos and/or Single Escape ... but now there are so many Talent Combinations(for both Aggressive and Defensive play styles(... well mostly Aggressive)) with this skill that it could replace Double Strike as your largest damage source.
 
8 - Thief's defining Skill - Robbery. By Default less Powerful than your Sudden Strike Skill and more powerful than your Adder Strike Skill. Has a low Cooldown and an Okay amount of Talent Combinations. It can be used for Aggressive and Defensive plays, it's good for farming loot ... and yes ... it can proc Card Drops ... any more features on this Skill and it would break the game's balance.
With a Shield equipped this Skill draws Aggro and since we already established that with a certain Talent this skill can lifesteal.
 
9 - Long Range Multi target setup for Escape and Initiation. It's really Basic ... like I said you'll only use it for Initiation or for an Escape if you are being chased by Enemies. The Skill itself has very limited talent Combinations and even less Skill combinations in the form of "Back up Disable"(we'll get to that later). Use only when necessary or risk burning away much needed Energy if you don't have a certain talent Dirty Fight from the Massacre talent tree. 
It's purpose is the same for both PVE and PVP.
... and it's also worth mentioning that the duration of the immobilization is NOT reset if the target hit by the Net Skill was already immobilized. Instead, wait for the immobilization to end and then use the Net Skill in order to achieve maximum immobilization. In other words time this Skill correctly if you have another Thief on your party or you have a Talent that allows you to recast this Skill without cooldown(Fortune's Favor) ... Yeah ... I don't know why this is a thing but it's been this way for years.
 
10 - One of the best if not the best Skill in Thief's arsenal. A strong Disable and Repositioning tool for PVE and a soft lockdown for PVP ... Unless you've mistimed it with another Disable Skill(could be yours or a friend's) there is almost no bad time to use this Skill.
With a Shield equipped this is basically the Thief's equivalent of the Warrior Class's Battle Shout Skill, however you must remember that you can
Oh hey, remember when I said that recasting the Net Skill on an already immobilized target does not reset the duration? Well the same applies to the Distraction Skill ... have fun.
 
11 - It may be as simple as + Stats and it's not as effective on other players ... but how many other classes can provide actual Attributes to an entire party? In short you're giving allies both Critical Chance and Hit where as most other classes grant only one perk.
 
12 - ... A "Get Out of Jail Free Card" that's undoubtedly much more effective in PVP. It's up to you to decide when to use it and while situations and strategies on when to manually use this Skill differ, it's more often better to use it right away if you are Initiated on by 2 or more Players rather than waiting to use it at the last very second.
 
Hmmmm this part doesn't seem as long as the other 2 ... so let's stretch it out with some Rogue facts:
 
- Upon entering Stealth mode you gain TRUE STEALTH for the first 5 seconds of Invisibility. Only your party members can see you through your True Stealth(Yes, even hostile Players can't see you if you use Stealth right next to them) ... and also higher level Enemies but their Detection is reduced while you are in True Stealth ... just keep in mind that it is only 5 seconds, so don't get carried away with it.
- The Following Skills and Actions can be use while in and without breaking Stealth - Sit, Leap, First Aid, Mounting, Save Portal Point, Sabotage(only if you have the talent for it), Gold Lust, Sip of Booze, Fortune, Deadly Vigilance, Massacre, Totems, Potions, Elixirs, Bumblebuzz Wings, Food and Drinks.
... Please Recall your Pet before you Stealth ... everyone can see it and know your location.
- You can have more than 1 Enemy under the effect of Gold Lust ... keep it in mind if you want to help out other Rogues with the Sucker Punches Talent or if you're using Area of Effect Skills that apply damage over time and you're going for a Critical Damage build.
- While in Stealth, Enemies can still hear you ... and all sounds are surround sound based ... if you Use Stealth and you use the Leap Skill close to an Enemy Player who can't see you, he can still hear the Leap sound effect so he can tell from where and to where you just leapt another example is People can hear you using the Gold Lust Skill ... it's not all bad, in fact not at all. The Sound is based on how close you are so the further you are from your Enemy the less likely it is that he can't heal you or at the very least he'll hear it too quietly to know where it's coming from ... it also helps that almost nobody who plays this game doesn't listen to Sound effects or Game Music - they just have a Music playlist in the background while they play the game on Mute.
- The Ice bomb's Cold Duration is ... interesting. If Players use an Ice bomb one after the other there are several outcomes - Outcome 1: If both players have or don't have the Deep Freeze Talent then the Duration of the Cold is neither extended or refreshed. Outcome 2: If one of them has the Deep Freeze Talent and the other doesn't then the Longer version of the Ice Bomb skill will extend the Cold duration to it's max if it is thrown Second, but if the Longer version of the Ice bomb is thrown First and followed up by the shorter version then the Cold's duration is unaffected even if the shorter version of the Ice Bomb hit an Enemy under a 1 second duration of Cold so time your Skills correctly.
- Morŧred is Biased against any Non Rogue Classes.
- The Lunge Skill has a cast time equal to a default Auto attack(hence why you can auto toggle it) it's actually the fastest out of all your Skills. When compared to let's say Bloody Strike for example you can clearly see that the Animation is the same but the Lunge Skill recovers faster. Always keep that in mind when forming your Combos based on duration of Enemies disabled. 
- If you're using two weapons then your damage equals to the combined damage between the two halved ... I know this was in a patch and was explained ... but why do so many people not get this? I've asked about 15 to 20 low Thieves over the last week or so why they used two weapons and if they knew that their damage bonus from their weapons is halved. The only 3 of them knew it was halved and they had over 1,5K Achievement points meaning they are using an alt character. And the most common answer I got was something along the lines of "Well it's what's recommended". Yes, you gain all the stats from both weapons but don't just upgrade and seal one of them you have to be willing to do the same for the other ... maybe that was the idea behind it - you get more than everyone but you have to be willing to invest more time and gold into it. Yeah you may know this but if I didn't see so that many new Rogues not knowing about this then I wouldn't have forced myself to mention it here. Perhaps if Royal Quest did have an a better interface describing each Class instead of the copy and paste Class review from the RQ Wiki on the talent window but change up the words a bit so it doesn't sound the same then maybe we wouldn't have had this problem.
Here's food for thought ... how about a new interface button that when clicked shows current and previous patch notes? ... you know just like every ... other ... online ... multiplayer ... game.
-While we're still on the "Interface" part, how about we update the description of the Dexterity Attribute. Back in my day when channeled Skills got an increase in cast thanks to dexterity how much of that aspect is viable today? So imagine my surprise when I tried out a Max dexterity build after reading that it "increases the speed of using Skills" to see if it quickens Skill cast animations and why I didn't recall ever using Dexterity other than for the Evasion and Attack Speed ... lo and behold I was lied to for 93% of the Skills. Bloody Strike, Shadow Strike, Distraction, any Bomb Skill, Robbery, Double Lunge, Blade Dance etc. all those Rogue unique Skills that you would want to have decreased cast animations remain unchanged ... yes ... call me an idiot but I even used a timer for every single one of those Skill tests. Oh well, it's just a bad translation, intended for channeled Skills. But wait ... I said 93% ... so what's the 7% that Dexterity improved on(not counting Evasion or Auto Attack Speed)? ... the Lunge Skill. Yes, Dexterity's "improved cast animations" apply only to the Lunge Skill ... but ONLY after the Initial damage instance. For example at Max 100 Dexterity with no other bonus Dexterity - after the damage instance of the Lunge Skill you can completely cancel it's recovery animation by using another Skill ... to give you a better understanding of how this is not like the default Lunge having a quick animation - If you have the Fortune's Favor Talent(10% chance to use a Skill without it going on cooldown) and all you do is spam Lunge ... just ... oh my God ... if you get 2 Fortune Favor procs in a row you can use the Lunge Skill 3 times in the span of 1 - 1.2 second ... and just in case you're still not understanding me ... the cooldown for the Lunge Skill(regardless if it's Auto Toggled) is 1 second ... let that sink in. I'm not sure if this is intentional and/or if it's just because if the Skill is tied in with Auto Attacks because of the Auto Toggle feature on the Skill ... but I don't think this is how it was intended ... well ... anyways enjoy exploiting it.

  • Talestra (Elgore), Solsagan (Elgore), Ragedrop (Elgore) and 3 others like this

#4 Morŧred (Elgore)

Morŧred (Elgore)

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:38 PM

Welcome to part 4 - Thief Class Overview and PVE/PVP Basic Combos
 
The Thief Class is one of the most versatile classes in the game, capable of fill all 3 of the Main roles - let's go through them in order of Most Effective to Least:
- DPS (Damage per Second) - Honestly ... there is very little to say about DPS on both Assassins and Thieves as a whole, they just excel at bursting a target through Critical Damage, Multiple Damage Amplifications, Itemization(since they can equip 2 weapons and gain their bonus stats along with extra cards), Class-Specific Counter builds and what not.
For the most part, a large portion of your damage comes from Skill use which costs Energy unless they are going for a High Dexterity Auto attack based build. 
Be careful when and how you use up your Energy/Damage. In even PVP matchup one of the 2 things everyone is looking for is Positioning/Skill use Mistakes and Current Energy. Make one of those mistakes and you're dog meat. The first mistake is obvious understand but difficult process in the middle of a fight and the second mistake is also obvious - No Energy = Limited Damage + Limited Options for plays ... see? Simple math.
 
- Tanking (regardless if it's temporary or not) - Equip a Shield to increase your Defense and Build stamina for maximum sustain since 3 out of 4 of your possible healing Skills are Max Health % based and please don't take a Shield just for granted - seal it, upgrade it, put a card in it like you would do with a Weapon ... so many people just equip a +1 Shield Non Slotted and unsealed and then just give up on it when it doesn't meet their expectations. There really isn't much to add to what I said about playing a Shield Thief back in part 3 ... go read that if you want to learn the basics because I'm not gonna repeat myself again ... this guide is long enough as it is.
The mere fact the thief class can use up to 3 Provocation Skills (Kick, Distraction and Robbery) while also dealing good and consistent amount of damage is just insane.
More on playing Shield Thief below in the PVE section because honestly the Shield is much more useful in PVE and in PVP.
 
Supporting (yes it sounds amazing on paper a secondary role that can offer all this, but since it does it also means that those aspects are not as powerful on their own, but combined they can be very good) - Yes, well ... I never said this was one of class's strongest role but effective nonetheless:
Decreasing Boss/Elite/Mob damage while also reducing their chance to Critically Strike with Impuissance (using the Kick Skill in combination with the Talents Dirty Fight(from the Massacre talent tree) and Caustic Smoke(from the Robbery talent tree))
Infinitely prolonging the Blinding debuff to ensure greater safety to others (repeated use of the Skills Robbery and Spring(while the Spring being in combination with the Talents Blinding and Robber's Fire)) ... the same argument could be applied with Clumsiness(cause by using the Weapon Throw Skill)
Providing up to 16.5 Seconds of Disable(if timed correctly) on several enemy unites(no more than 5) so that his/her party can re-position, heal up, pick off or even run away(using Ice Bomb(in combination with the Deep Freezing Talent), Net(in combination with the Dirty Fight Talent), Distraction and Magic Bomb Skills ... possibly longer if the Talent Fortune's Favor procs from any of these Skills allowing you to recast them with 0 cooldown).
The Ability to draw Aggro up to 3 times to assist or replace the team's tank (by using the Skills Robbery, Distraction and Kick while a Shield is equipped)
Increasing Defense(through Campfire Aura - can be made to only have a 3 second cooldown), Percentage-based Group Healing(also from Campfire), Loot Drops(from Robbery - don't forget it can still proc a Card drop), Gold dropped from Enemies(Gold lust), Damage Allies deal to a Single(while all Classes possess the ability to weaken a foe - Warriors break armor to increase Physical Damage, Mages lower Magic resistance to increase Elemental Damage and increase Effect duration, Archers ... um ... use Acidic Ammunition to increase damage from Auto attacks and damage over time, but Rogues use Vulnerability to increase the damage taken by the Target from ALL sources or Multiple Targets(requires you to have the Frantic Spring Talent(made even better with the Robber's Fire Talent)) and Increase in Hit/Critical Chance(through Fortune's Aura).
 
PVP ... if you can even call it that:
 
Important Note: If you're engaging in a Fight 60% of the times you are committing to it(unless you have a ridiculous movement speed Footwear build). Once in Combat Stealth can not be used(obviously) and in PVP zones such as the Puppet Mansion, Arena, Battlegrounds, the Pyramid Floors, the Black Caves, Castle Dungeons, Castle Keymaster Labyrinths ... Hall of the Bloody Axe and Voko's lair it takes 15-16 seconds of not taking or dealing ANY damage to exit Combat mode in order to re-enter Stealth ... yeah ... not as easy as it sounds. The general argument is that Thief has so many Disables it will buy him enough time to escape ... spoken by only those who's never played against people with half a brain. You're going to use Distraction on an Enemy? ... you know he can still hit you right and prevent you from using Leap(A decent escape is using Distraction and then Spring to quickly gain distance and recover some cooldown for the Leap Skill ... assuming that your Spring Skill isn't on cooldown) ... and you're still vulnerable during the 1 second cast animation ... and what if your Enemy is ranged? Are you just going to close the gap between the two of you(completely negating the purpose of an escape) just to silence them while they continue to auto attack you? Okay just use a Ranged Disable on them like Ice Bomb or Magic Bomb, because it's not like every class shares a high mobility Skill like Leap or their own form of gap closing and let's not forget that as soon as the game counts the mobility Skill as "successfully cast" the player hit box is instantly at the chosen location even before the move animation is played. Heck of the funnies parts of experimenting with a friend for things to write in this guide was while testing in a duel with another Thief ... I manage to freeze him using Ice Bomb mid animation and mid distance of Spring not by aiming where he was but where he was going ... what does this have to do with anything? Nothing really ... just don't be surprised when you swear you landed a Ranged Disable right on someone, but it didn't count as Successful. Well in that case I'll just wait for my Enemy to use their mobility Skill and then Cast my Ranged Disable. Great idea, just allow for them disable you first and burst you down while you politely anticipate their movement. Still doesn't matter, as long as you land your Disables ... yeap it doesn't matter what could possibly go wrong with that ... except for a couple of things that go along the line of "Tireless Protector, Reliable Protection, Deadly Vigilance, Escape, Obsession, Berserker, Endless Fury, Spellbreaking, Healing Shield and those little Aqua Crystals. Okay ... just use the Net, it's not considered a disable and with the Thorny Net Talent it can't be dispelled so easily ... that is unless you're forgetting that other people can still hit you if you're in range ... and they can cast their own Disables on you. Oh and let's not forget the fact that you still have a cast animation for your Ranged Disables so you yourself can get Stunned or Frozen mid throwing animation. Look ... I'm not trying to discourage you from playing PVP with the Thief class, I'm trying to emphasize that your options for escaping a lost fight are low and yeah the same can be said for most other classes ... so either commit to killing all Enemies or re-group/re-position with your team/party. Don't just run back and forth between hits on Enemies because you're too scared of dying. Yeah, you'll get some free escapes from time to time ... after all ... every Goat has it's day. I'll say it now ... and I'll say it again 1 more time later: Pick ... Your ... Fights ... Accordingly. Don't just jump in a 2v6 because your 2 teammates are dying ... because you're no good to them if just die right after them.
... right ... now that we got those horror stories out of the way ... let's light up the mood a bit ... I said a bit.
 
There are about 3 to 4 PVP play styles which we will go over in this:
 
We have the "I play Thief like an Assassin, but I didn't choose the proper class because of (insert a random excuse here)". The most commonly seen Thief play style in PVP. They do the same thing over and over again with no variety - They enter Stealth and roam around(possibly building cunning while in Stealth) and they wait/look around for an isolated target, once they found it they will engage the target with a very Heavy Combo Skill sequence while also burning away a large portion of Energy to do so, once the target it dead they will run away spamming the Leap Skill in order to exit Combat so they can re-enter Stealth and repeat the process. Funny thing is ... half the time it doesn't work - they will either drop the combo, get interrupted by someone they didn't notice was nearby(or just respawned) ... or their burst won't be enough to kill the target(leaving them with half of the Thief class's Essential Skills on cooldown) and if any those circumstances happen then they will try to run away and get themselves slowly killed after which they will either say that the game is imbalanced(maybe it is - maybe it isn't, but definitely not for that person's reason) or they will say that they distracted the top damage dealers from contributing to a large team fight ... but hey, 50% success rate isn't so bad ... right?
Their entire PVP experience comes down to 1 on 1 Duels and while they can be unintentionally funny, it's still a play style that's dangerous for both the Thief and his/her Enemies.
But we can all learn from their example ... mostly from their Combo play styles.
Let's Start of Small and gradually build up to something Large.
 
///Your basic Combo with default Rogue Skills for level 7:
- Stealth -> Chase -> Shadow Strike (Costs 30 Energy) ... it doesn't get any more easy than this. When you reach 
When you reach level 9 you can unlock the Blade Dance Skill to add it to the end of this Combo but it won't stay there for long.
- Stealth -> Chase -> Shadow Strike -> Blade Dance (Costs 45 Energy). It's not really a Combo it's more of a "I just initiated and I need some defense to get an early lead but I haven't unlocked any other Skills" kind of thing.
At level 13 you will have the Gold Lust Skill useful for Critical damage(grants attack speed and Critical chance while also applying a negative buff on a target which can be used to boost the Sucker Punches Talent). Please keep in mind ... just because you CAN use this Skill doesn't mean that you HAVE to use it. In many cases it can give you away by alerting the target or burn out Energy. However it can be very useful in PVP in Mind Games where you use it on someone just to get them paranoid that there is an invisible Enemy near.
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Shadow Strike (Costs 42 Energy) and it's "safe" counter part - Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Shadow Strike -> Blade Dance (Costs 48 Energy)
At level 15 you'll get your first Disable Skill - the Ice Bomb and now we can use it at the end of our previous Combos in order to extend them.
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Shadow Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike (Costs 80 Energy). Keep in mind that the 2 Seconds of Cold from the Ice Bomb are not enough secure all 3 Skill follow ups(Lunge, Bloody Strike and Sudden Strike) it can only secure the first 2(unless you have the Deep Freezing talent which you can't have until you reach level 16) and the Sudden Strike/Adder Strike Skill is left for last so that it can deal more damage by building Cunning before it's use. You already have max Cunning and you're afraid when the Cold duration wears off that you'll miss you can switch things up to: 
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Shadow Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike -> Bloody Strike (Costs 80 Energy). The reason why Lunge comes before Sudden Strike is not just for Cunning purposes but also to apply Vulnerability on the target in addition to the Vulnerability caused by Shadow Strike in order to increase the damage output of your Sudden Strike Skill. It's also worth mentioning that in a Combo string you should always prioritize Lunge over Bloody Strike simply because of the fact that Lunge has a faster recovery allowing it to quickly lead up to any next Skill Combo.
... you can also add Blade Dance at the end of the 2 Combos I just listed above (it will cost 95 Energy)
HOLD IT! This was all for levels 9 to 20 before you even pick the Thief profession ... now we will change up things. Why? Because up to this point the standart Combo of "- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Shadow Strike -> Ice Bomb" has a small gap at the between Shadow Strike and Ice Bomb. So why didn't I mention it until now? Because most Classes have little to no options for taking advantage of the 0.5 - 0.7 second of Skill recovery animation(yes even in counting with the Stun Duration from the Stealthy feature of the Chase Skill). It's still as good as before but if you're going to keep using the the "- Stealth-> Chase -> Shadow Strike" part of the Combo ALWAYS make sure that your target has their Stuns or Disables on cooldown. There are far too many Skills with quick cast animation that can easily cancel out the rest of your Combo and set you up for one of their own ... unless you're fighting mobs ... then there is no risk to using the combo in that order.
Alright ... caution out of the way ... now let's resume.
Assuming you're level 20 you could now perform:
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike (Costs 90 Energy) This should be enough to build Cunning without any Cunning Rush based Talents for maximum damage output Combo.
If you happen to have Magic Bomb by Maxing out the Thievish Tricks talent tree then:
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike -> Magic Bomb (Costs 105 Energy). Keep in mind that there is a small window of opportunity for your Enemy to disrupt your Combo at the end - in between "Sudden Strike/Adder Strike -> Magic Bomb" unless you have the Deep Freezing Talent.
If you just so happen to have both Magic Bomb and Deep Freezing you can alter it a bit:
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike -> Lunge -> Magic Bomb (Costs 112 Energy).
However ... if you just so happen to have maxed Fighting or Bashing or even Massacre ... God knows why since you haven't unlocked all the Skill and you don't have enough Talent points in order to make strong combinations among them .... then:
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Weapon Throw/Bashing (will cost 98/95) It is recommended that the Weapon Throw or Bashing Skills are left for last so that their debuffs can take effect while the Enemy is free because why would you use them half way or at the beginning of long Combo when their short duration would wear out by the time they're done?
or if you have Massacre ... just add it at the very beginning of every Combo.
- Massacre -> Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike (Costs 102 Energy) ... what did you expect? that you're gonna stop mid combo to use it instead of building it up and prolonging it's effects? 
At this Point I should really recommend that if you're using this form of Stealth initiation into chain Combo it is always a good idea when you finish your Combo to put down a Campfire and then use Blade Dance in anticipation of your target retaliating (simply put when your Combo is finished just add Campfire -> Blade Dance at them end of it if you can spare another 25 points of Energy) or this may force them into running thinking that they are in condition to fight back while you're in your "comfort zone".
At level level 24 you will gain the Kick Skill and at level 26 you'll gain the Double Strike Skill.
I recommend reserving them for AFTER your Combo as reactionary plays to Enemy who'll stand their ground and fight back. I don't really recommend them to Combo chain since both of them have slow in terms of cast animation which wastes time from your Disables. The Kick needs to be used at the end or middle of a combo in order to discourage Enemies from fighting back, a majority of your Combo Skills either apply the same kind of effect(relatively speaking), deal farm more damage because they are Cunning based Finishers or they need to have a quick cast animation. The Double Strike skill is Strong on it's own ... it does not need a Combo to set up for it. In many cases after your long Combo chain you're probably going to be repeating:
- Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge -> Kick -> Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge (a 54 Energy costing backup Mini-Combo until your other Skills come back from cooldown).
At level 30 you will unlock the Robbery Skill ... just replace any Combo that contains "Sudden Strike/Adder Strike" with "Sudden Strike/Adder Strike/Robbery" ... just keep in mind that Robbery costs 4 more Energy than the other 2 alternatives.
At level 32 you will get the the Net Skill allowing hold down an Enemy if they try to run away from you after you finish your combo and set down a Campfire 
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Weapon Throw/Bashing -> Campfire -> Net/Blade Dance (Costs 122/119 Energy (if you use the Net) or 123/120 (if you use Blade Dance)). This is based on Enemy reaction ... if you think your target will run away or you feel like it's your time to run away then use the Net. If you want to stay and fight but your target doesn't run away but instead begins to fight back then use Blade Dance.
... if you have Magic Bomb then:
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Magic Bomb -> Net -> Kick (Costs 125 Energy)... it's very simple if you don't think you're going to kill the target and you deem it too dangerous don't use the Net Skill at the end, just let them run around while you make a break for it. You want to keep fighting after Magic Bomb use the Net - combined the basically for what I like to call the "Sleep" Disable where the target can't do anything but if they that enough damage they will snap out of it. The reason why I chose to end it with the Kick is to further discourse the target from fighting back and since they are already immobilized you can go ahead and add the Campfire skill at the end of it ... if you can spare another 10 Energy Points.
... at 34 ... you'll get the Distraction Skill ... I am so tired right now.
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Weapon Throw/Bashing -> Campfire -> Net -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge -> Kick (Costs 178/175 Energy) you can switch around the order of the Net and Distractions Skills depending on your situation ... their combination is for 1 purpose ... to lockdown an Enemy 
... if you have Magic Bomb: 
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Magic Bomb -> Net -> Kick -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge -> Kick (Costs 181 Energy)
And finally(thank God) if you're level 44 ... you have up to 2 Talent trees maxed out ... here we go again:
if you have Magic Bomb + Massacre:
- Massacre -> Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Magic Bomb -> Net -> Kick -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge -> Kick (Costs 193 Energy)
if you have Fighting or Robbery(Bashing) + Massacre:
- Massacre -> Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Weapon Throw/Bashing -> Campfire -> Net -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge -> Kick (Costs 190/187 Energy)
if you have Magic Bomb and Fighting or Robbery(Bashing):
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Magic Bomb -> Net -> Kick -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Weapon Throw/Bashing -> Lunge -> Kick (Costs 189/186 Energy) If you're sure that you have enough damage and are sure your Enemy is not Evasion Built or will immediately respond with a defensive Skill
OR
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Weapon Throw/Bashing -> Magic Bomb -> Net -> Kick -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Double Strike -> Lunge -> Kick (Costs 192/189 Energy) If you're sure that you have enough damage and are sure your Enemy is not Evasion Built or will immediately respond with a defensive Skill
... if you have both Robbery(Bashing) and Fighting:
- Stealth -> Gold Lust -> Chase -> Lunge -> Stunning -> Lunge -> Bloody Strike -> Ice Bomb -> Lunge -> Weapon Throw -> Campfire -> Net -> Distraction -> Lunge -> Kick -> Lunge -> Bashing -> Lunge -> Double Strike (Costs 200 Energy)... you can switch around the order of the Skills Weapon Throw and Bashing depending on a your situation. If your target is a healer/support then use the combo in the current order I've written. If you target is a damage dealer ... switch the order of the Bashing and Weapon Throw Skills for maximum damage reduction.
 
Now you may have noticed that some Skills like the Leap, Spring, Blade Dance and Sabotage were left out as of now they are not so important in Single target bursting and they are more tuned to counter playing Enemy moves.
You don't have to do any of these and I'm not forcing you to master them. I want you to look at them and come up with ideas, get a better understanding of their purpose and combinations between them all. 
And this ... was just the tip of the Iceberg ... these are merely Combos based on Stealth initiation on a 1 target ... and these aren't even all the Combos for it. We haven't even brushed on how to initiate via Magic Bomb/ Engage via no Stealth with Campfire or ... you get the idea ... there's a lot more. But you should learn to take baby steps first, then you can walk and then learn to run.
... I wonder if anyone will ever catch on that this is a semi-counter evasion build ... probably not ... I doubt someone even is even reading this. 
 
Then there is the "I'm just going to Set up a Campfire near my team while they fight and I'm going to run away, occasionally coming back to throw an Area of Effect Skill/Disable hoping that my Talents will do the work for me, because I'm really helping my team out through Support ... hashtag carrying my team" Thief PVP play style which ... is probably extinct ... and should probably stay that way ... but please don't do this for your own sake, because all you're doing is getting into a habit and a bad one at that, but it's making you think you're doing good because you're dying less when really you're just not doing anything and you're not learning or improving on playing the class ... you're also making yourself an easier target for Rogues(Thieves/Assassins) playing previous said PVP play style.
 
Moving on to the 3rd Thief play style for PVP, we have the Shield Thief who charges into battle without Stealth and who's quotes were/are/and forever will be "Hey guys, I just tanked 6-10 seconds of Disables and burst, the Enemy team's Controlling Effects and damage are on cooldown. You can now take them on ... guys? ... GUYS?!? ... Did nobody come to back me up or ... was I left for dead? Well it's not a big ... wait, how am I dead? I had a Shield equipped. I should have been invincible! Screw the Shield it's useless!" ... yeah ... almost every Thief has tried this PVP play style and has never thought to try it out again under other circumstances or they just blindly believe what other people say about Shield play styles without trying it for themselves.
Okay real talk, the only Downside to being a Shield Thief is in PVP where everything is just chaotic. A Shield Thief in PVP is more of a Supporting role since ... well ... you're not exactly tanking or dealing high damage, you're just adding a little damage to your team while also providing crowd control. Nobody is going to look at a Shield Thief(unless the Shield Thief is alone) and say "Damn that Shield Thief is doing a lot of damage, we need to shut him down fast!", unless they find the Shield Thief incredibly annoying because of his ... lackluster supporting compared to other support classes they are just going to say "Why waste effort on a tanky unit with no damage when we can just burst his party and leave him for last rendering him useless?". Of course this is a rather over exaggeration but still on the accurate side.
If you're not dealing high damage you're not a priority ... unless you're alone against more people than you can count. The only time someone will shift focus on you is if they just had enough of you denying them kills and disrupting their flow.
The only kinds of players who will target a Shield Thief are people who just inspected you and said to themselves "Yeah ... I could burst him down with my counter tank build and nobody on his/her team would care" or people who has no clue what is going on and they are just looking for targets that won't instantly kill them ... in other words you're being used as Bait for your team to lure easy kills ... have fun.
 
And finally we have the Reactionary Thief PVP play style, which is probably the only real PVP play style ... these are the people who are actually good in PVP playing as a Thief ... you know ... the ones who when he/she sees an Enemy Dark Knight use Ice Strike on an ally, he/she will immediately set up a Campfire, use Weapon Throw followed by Kick and then Robbery to greatly reduce the damage of the Dark Knight while healing and greatly ensuring his/her disabled ally lives through the situation ... you know ... the kind of Thief who when he/she is far away from a fight and sees a Crusader charging into battle, he/she will chain stun the Crusader preventing him from reaching the fight and supporting his team? ... you know ... that Thief who knows which targets to prioritize and which to ignore, which fights to engage in and which fights ignore? ... you know ... the type that don't really rely on combos and instead base their Skill use on countering Enemy Skill usage and patterns ... you know ... the kind of Thief that YOU are NOT, because all you did was make an alternate character to test class skills, so you learned to chain 4-11 Skill combos in 1 on 1 Duels against inexperienced newcomers and then you told yourself that the class is easy so you didn't put the time and effort into learning it so when you got bored and decided to level it up you got demolished in fights bigger than a 1 on 1 or with a counter build to yours making you abandon the class thinking it was the dumb ... yeah, THAT Thief play style ... that I can't help you with because it's based on game instinct and experience and not some tutorial on dial up combos ... yeah ... those kind of Thieves can be counted on the hands of a Bomb disposal expert. I could write an entire book on how to counter Sniper with build A-Z using every Thief build but it's ultimately pointless, because it's one thing to theorize, but to execute said theory is an entirely different story.
... but let me guess: You REALLY want to know how to get better at this particular PVP style, don't you? ... Too bad, because it requires an understanding of every other class in the game and their builds just to get an understanding of what/when to do - which leads us to my only Advice for this play styles: "PICK YOUR FIGHTS ACCORDINGLY" ... if you're fighting a Sniper and you see him just standing in one place spamming his healing Skill Wound Dressing while you are in Stealth, it's obvious he's placed a Mine a Burr trap behind him waiting for you to initiate on him - then use Magic Bomb and force him to move out of his "Safe Spot" ... you don't have Magic Bomb? then initiate on him from the front ... he's got Rolands planted planted in front of him? then come out of Stealth and use the environment to your advantage - A Sniper can't really do anything to you if he doesn't have a clear/direct shot ... in other words bait him out of positioning(You have skills that don't require direct line of attack ... cough* Ice Bomb, Net, Distraction cough*) ... and if you're not fighting a 1 on 1 then it's very likely that the Sniper hasn't set up a defense for you if he is probably targeting your allies making it easier to engage him in a fight IF he's your highest priority ... or you could just bait someone else on your team to tank the damage from the traps if the Sniper is camping. Here's another case of countering ... oh ... nice ... you got me rambling, but you still get my point - it's easy to come up with logical strategies on countering every class, but it's not always that easy, there are a lot of factors that go into this which often forces you to think - How, When and Should I use my Skills? - and that is for you to learn on your own.
... Call me lazy if you want, but I still say Experience is the Best Teacher.
 
PVE
 
Okay ... let's talk about PVE.
Every Rogue has to start somewhere and what better place to start than from PVE. I'm going to take a Different approach to this one.
I still highly recommend Maxing the Thievish Tricks and/+ the Massacre talent tree until you reach level 44. With that said:
The Thievish Tricks Talent tree should take priority over the Massacre talent tree if your level is under 28. When you reach level 28 you will start unlocking Skills that can best be synced up with the Massacre Talent tree. I told you that the Thievish Tricks talent tree was a Support Talent tree(You know what kind of "Support" I mean ... if you don't go back and read up on it at Part 1) and since it can't carry a play style on it's own, it will start to Limit your Combo possibilities.
 
As far as Single target Combos go, all of the listed Combos in the PVP part apply here and are just as good if not more since there is less threat if drop a Combo.
So let's Focus on Crowd Control Combos(it's best to focus on Single target combos until you at least get to level 28 and unlock the Spring Skill):
 
///Your basic of Combos/few Skill chains with no Talent Combinations for level 28:
- Spring -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance (Costs 38 Energy). You can add the use of the Skills Sip of Booze, Ice Bomb and Campfire at any part of this combo, however I would recommend that you start off with the Campfire Skill ... actually ... start every PVE fight with Campfire, yes you could take a few hits while the cast animation plays but it's nothing compared how much you would have taken if you initiated with Spring in the first place.
Typically it's a good idea to follow up on the Campfire Skill with a Strong Disable Skill(in this case Ice Bomb since you haven't really unlocked all your Class Skills at level 28).
So try out:
- Campfire -> Ice Bomb -> Spring -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Sip of Booze (Costs 78 Energy).
And if you just so happen to have Magic Bomb available then use it at the End as a way disengage the fight if you no longer think you can win the fight.
- Campfire -> Ice Bomb -> Spring -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Sip of Booze -> Magic Bomb (Costs 93 Energy)
On the Other hand if you happen to have Massacre available then you should be able to do the following:
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Ice Bomb -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance (Costs 114 Energy ... See what I mean when I say it's recommended to have Stamina as a Secondary priority in Attributes if you're Massacre?). Important either make sure you can take the hits during your x4 use of the Spring Skill or you can use Sip of Booze right before the Campfire to gain extra healing because you only have 5 seconds to perform all 4 Spring casts and there is little time to mess around. And while we're on the Subject, if you have the Knock down Booze talent you can switch up ANY combo that starts with the Campfire Skill by using Sip of Booze before it here's an example of the same Combo but changed in order to maximize damage from the Knock down Booze talent:
- Massacre -> Sip of Booze -> Campfire -> Ice Bomb -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance (Costs 114 Energy). Just make sure that you won't need the Initial Heal from the Sip of Booze Skill mid Combo otherwise you may have dug your own grave in exchange for a little bit of early damage.
Something else worth noting is if you have the Mass Intoxication Talent from the Massacre talent tree you can end the Combos listed above with Adder Strike(recommended) or Sudden Strike in order to spread Area of Effect Poison onto multiple targets. Just as long as you have at least 1 point in Cunning:
- Massacre -> Sip of Booze -> Campfire -> Ice Bomb -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike (Costs 124 Energy). If you're level 30 you can use the Robbery Skill instead of Adder Strike and Sudden Strike but it will cost you 128 Energy(... it will cost you 4 more Energy if you use Robbery).
At level 32 You will have the Net Skill available, however it's not exactly useful to start a fight with it unless you have Thorny Net Talent but even then I still recommend that you use it at the End of your Combo not just for Damage over time(if you have the talent) but for an escape as well if your Enemies are too tough. Think of it as a discount Magic Bomb, I feel like I have point out for your sake that just because you can end your Combo with the Net Skill doesn't mean you should. Sometimes it's best to reserve Energy. 
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Ice Bomb -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Net (Costs 129 Energy)
At level 34 you will have unlocked the Distraction Skill. This will take Ice Bomb's place in your Combos since even with the Deep Freezing Talent the duration of the Disable on monsters from the Distraction Skill is still longer however it allows you to use Ice Bomb in another part of your Combo or at the end as another means of Escape:
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Distraction -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Ice Bomb -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Net (Costs 145 Energy) If costs more but it is safer. If you are looking for a riskier but it less Energy costing version then:
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Distraction -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Ice Bomb/Net (Costs 130/131 Energy depending if you've used Net or Ice Bomb at the end of your Combo ... the Net Skill costs less)
If you still don't have Massacre maxed by this point then I'm sorry your Combo is limited to:
- Campfire -> Distraction -> Spring -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Ice Bomb -> Magic Bomb (Costs 84 Energy). You may be wondering where are the Sip of Booze and Net Skills ... they are reserved for when you're waiting for your Combo to be ready since all your crowd damage Skills are limited and with very little Talent combinations from the Thievish Tricks talent tree your options for crowd farming is very limited. In all honesty if you're planning on sticking with the Thievish Tricks talent tree until level 44 ... Good on ya' but if I were you I'd either just tackle all monsters one at a time or be careful with how big of a mob I pull since your survivability is okay at best and your damage is ... also okay ... but neither of them are anything really special. 
At level 44 you will have enough Talent points to be able to Max 2 Talent trees. Which means we can add Magic Bomb at the end of your Combo instead of forcing the Net or Ice Bomb Skills there(Why Magic Bomb instead of Weapon Throw or Bashing? ... because we're talking about mass crowd control. Of what use is a single target Skill a group of Identical Enemies out for your Blood?).
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Distraction -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Ice Bomb -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Net/Magic Bomb (... it still costs 145/146 Energy depending on what Skill you use at the end ... and yes the Net Skill costs less).
If you have Thorny Net Talent you could combine it with Magic Bomb in order to apply Deadly stacks of Damage of time on multiple enemies:
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Distraction -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Ice Bomb -> Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Net -> Magic Bomb(Costs 160 Energy).
... or if you just so happen to have the Thorny Net AND the Mass Intoxication you can do the "I'm all in! It's all or nothing" Combo ... or as I like to call it the "Screw my Party's tank I want ALL the Mob Aggro AND I WANT IT NOW!!!" Combo
- Massacre -> Campfire -> Distraction -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Spring -> Sip of Booze -> Ice Bomb -> Sudden Strike/Adder Strike/Robbery ->Sabotage -> Blade Dance -> Net -> Magic Bomb (it will cost you a Grand Total of 170/174 Energy ... enjoy being pounced on with no Energy)
One last thing worth mentioning if you have the Deadly Dance talent from the Fighting Talent tree any of the listed above Combos can be changed into having the Blade Dance Skill at the very end of the Combo since the more Skills you use before Blade Dance the more Cooldowns you'll reduce.
 
... Moving on to Tanking:
The most used Abilities of a Shield Thief are going to be Lunge, Blade Dance, Campfire, Sip of Booze, Kick and Distraction - these are the most useful when tanking an Elite/Boss simply because all other Skill/Talent combinations take too long to set up or are ineffective against your Enemy(for example: Yes, Magic Bomb can save you and give you time to re engage multiple enemies ... but using it on a Boss is merely a 1 second where you are just doing damage as basic as Lunge) and if they are then it's not really a situation where your Shield is a necessity.
Typically you set up a Campfire, then use Distraction to take Aggro from a Boss(by then you will have taken 1 hit), after that you use Sip of Booze and then Blade Dance. While the Sip of Booze and Campfire are running their course build up some Cunning in order to use Robbery at full damage thus increasing the amount of health gained from the damage dealt by the Skill. If you think you're going to take too much damage by the time the Blade Dance, Sip of Booze and Campfire come off of cooldown then use the Kick Skill in between to reduce the target's damage output. If you've survived this long then you've got the instinct to tank and all you have to do is repeat the Skill cycle in whatever order you feel will allow you to survive longer than your target. An Honorable mention goes to the Weapon Throw Skill that can also find high use for tanking by not just prolonging the protection gained from the Blade Dance Skill but also for the Clumsiness feature increasing your chances of survival.
It is usually recommended that you should Auto-Toggle the Lunge Skill to be repeatable in order consistently build Cunning although you will need Equipment suited to Energy recharge. If you don't have such Equipment then might I recommend investing some Talents into a Cunning Rush play style as a backup? I told you there was a reason for why I chose this order of my guild parts.
And finally ... there is no shame in asking for Support. Every tank in the game at one point has asked for it. As long as you can provoke high damage Enemies with a Shield equipped then you're making it easier for your DPS(Damage per second) and your Support(because it can become a mess for just 1 support to keep everyone safe especially when the Boss switches targets every 3-5 seconds).
 
Pop Quiz: How many Warriors does it take to take the Meat Chopper Boss?
Spoiler
The answer is: None ... all you need is a Shield and provocation to keep the others safe.
We even did the Infernaiden with 3 Thieves and 1 Warlock ... but I can't find that screenshot. You'll just have to believe me on that ... or you could ask Citroz and Muschbrumse as they took part in it.
... you wanna go play Shield Thief now, don't you? Go get em' champ.
 
Supporting in PVE ...
... let's be straight here I've already listed how Thief Supporting works at the Start of this part so read that instead.
For the Most part Playing Thief as a Support comes down to picking certain Talents and timing your Skills. It's not even difficult to understand or perform. Anyone can do it with a few tries ... just not many people realize they can support a team because they're always looking out for themselves when playing Thief focusing only on damage and glory in kill stats.

  • Talestra (Elgore), Solsagan (Elgore), Ragedrop (Elgore) and 3 others like this

#5 Morŧred (Elgore)

Morŧred (Elgore)

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 09:38 PM

Welcome to Part 5 Equipment
 
Truth be told ... there isn't much to say about Equipment other than the possible Seals and Cards. 90% of the time you either have no alternative for level equipment or you have a couple of alternatives ... but they don't really force you into a certain play style(except for Elemental Rings but that's debatable since you're still playing the same way you would have normally, the only difference is your type of damage).
 
Okay, let begin with the Lightning Elemental Build:
First of all you're going to need a Card of Air for your weapon then ... beg your pardon? What do you mean I'm stealing someone else's already made build? But I'm not repeating anything, I'm giving it my own unique view ... What do you mean that's not transformative work?!? FINE! Have it your way:
...
An Elemental Build is made by combining equipment that provides elemental damage, seals that provide the same elemental damage, Cards that deal elemental damage(Card of Air/Fire/Water/Earth/Poison/Chaos or Monster cards that provide certain Skill procs that deal your chosen elemental damage) and Talents that provide any form of buff to said element. Made stronger if all the conditions for the so called "Elemental build" feature the same Element ... which also makes it easier to counter but since everybody always focuses on damage ... I guess you will always get a free pass for Elemental damage.
... there ... now can we move on without accusations of stealing other people's builds from Forum? It's not even a complicated or in depth mechanics. Well too bad ... I oversimplified it ... so now you can't really claim that this part of the Guide is ripped off.
 
Seals that I would recommend:
A word of advice ... much like players, items have their own class based on their level. The lowest being C Class and the highest being A Class. The higher the item Class the more efficient the Seal becomes.
Also these Seals are for Thieves only. You'll find no "Two Handed" Cards in this category. I've also taken the liberty to pick the most basic and simple of Seals. If you find one that's better than the ones I gave that's fine. These are just my recommendations to newcomers no need to get complicated.
And No ... I'm not going to give a full description of every Card and Seal in here ... if I did this guide would be on hold until 2022. You'll just have to take my word on them ... would a Rogue lie? ... wait, wait, wait! Don't leave! 
 
- If you need Strength/Damage - Seal of the Bard(it's also really good on Luck. For Amulets, Rings and Totems), Seal of Hercules(for Artifacts, Swords, Axes and Shields. I don't think you can get this on Daggers ... I can't remember ever seeing any Rogue with this seal on his/her Daggers in all the years I've played), Seal of the Physical Destruction(for Gloves, Shields, Weapons and Headgear) and Seal of the Armorbearer(Available for Weapons, Headgear, Armor, Greaves and Shields. Also good for Stamina).
 
- If you need Dexterity - Seal of the Bumblebuzz(for ALL equipment) and Seal of the Dodger(up to +13 Dexterity. Available only for Face Accessories, Gloves and Footwear).
 
- If you need Stamina - Seal of Stamina(+13 Stamina at Orange. Available only for Headgear, Armor and Greaves.), Seal of the Nizhada(for Face Accessories, Amulets, Artifacts, Headgear, Armor, Rings, Gloves, Greaves, Totems and Shield), Seal of the Armorbearer(for Headgear, Weapons, Armor, Greaves and Shield. Also great for damage) and Seal of the Wanderer(same as the Armorbearer but just replace the Strength with Luck. Available only for Amulets, Headgear, Armor, Rings, Greaves and Totems).
 
- If you need Luck - Seal of the Bard(it's also really good on Strength. Available Amulets, Rings and Totems), Seal of Luck(for Amulets, Rings and Totems), Seal of the Wanderer(for Amulets, Headgear, Armor, Rings, Greaves and Totems. Also good for stamina), Seal of the Firefly(Only for Gloves and Greaves. Also good on Energy recovery) and Seal of Fortune(for all equipment).
 
- If you need Defense - Seal of Egregore(Also good for Energy. Available for Face Accessories, Armor, Footwear and Shields), Seal of the Fortress(for Face Accessories, Amulets, Artifacts, Headgear, Armor, Rings, Footwear, Gloves, Greaves, Totems and Shields) and Seal of the Iron Faith(Only for Armor and Greaves).
 
- If you need Critical Damage - Seal of Maura's Claws(only for Weapons) and Seal of the Critical Remarks(for Headgear, Amulets and Face Accessories).
 
- If you need Critical Chance - Seal of the Rogue Bear(for Headgear, Greaves, Footwear and Greaves), Seal of Madness(for all Weapons and Shields) and Seal of the Razor/Fatalist(at their Blue, Purple and Orange states they give the same amount of Critical Chance. Fatalist also grants Luck whereas Razor grants Attack damage. Razor is available for only your Daggers and Swords. Fatalist can be applied to any Weapon and Shield).
 
- If you need Energy - Seal of the Firefly (for either Greaves or Gloves) and Seal of Egregore(Also good for Defense. Available for Face Accessories, Armor, Footwear and Shields).
 
- If you need Gold - Seal of the Worker Ant(for literally any equipment other than Weapons and Totems. Must be at least Blue) and Seal of Gold(for ALL equipment and it even gives bonus gold at Green).
 
- If you need Experience - Seal of the Black Crab(The seal needs to be at least Blue colored, for Artifacts, Headgear, Armor, Gloves and Greaves), Seal of the Wanderings(the same as Seal of the Black Crab only it's difference is that the Wanderer seal's Green version grants 3% hp and the Black Crab's Green version grants 4 stamina ... but they are both the same at Orange. The wanderer seal is limited to only Artifacts, Headgear and Gloves) and Seal of the Crused Forest(for Artifacts, Headgear, Gloves, ANY Weapon and Shields).
 
- If you need Elemental Damage - Seal of Earthquake, Seal of Fire, Seal of the Flood, Seal of Discharge(all seals with +8% Elemental damage and +4 Stamina. It's kind of obvious which seal is based on which Element. All the seals are only for Rings).
 
- If you need Elemental Resistance - Seal of the Water Protection, Seal of the Air Protection, Seal of the Earth Protection,Seal of the Fire Protection and Seal of the Chaos Protection (all grant the same amount of Stamina and Resistance Points to their obvious Element. All of them are available for Face Accessories, Amulets, Artifacts, Headgear, Armor, Rings, Footwear, Gloves, Greaves, Totem and Shield).
 
- Special Shout out to - Seal of the Messanger(for it's movement buff. Available for only Footwear) and Seal of the Master(for PVP resistance, + Max health bonus. Available only for Greaves and Footwear). 
 
Cards I would recommend:
Honestly I tried to find the most common and less gimmicky Cards easy to understand and simple to use as a recommendation to any new Thief.
(let's be nice to newcomers now and just ignore Transmutation, Elite, Boss, Dungeon-based or Blood Cards, okay? And while I will admit it can be hard for newcomers to farm some cards, but they don't have to do it on their own. Market and Friends will to help will always be there ... well at least 1 of them.)
 
Headgear - Card of the Cave Snail, Card of the Glutton or Card of the Snail(for Defense), Card of the Croupier(for Energy Recharge), Card of the Worker Ant(for Exp farming) and Card of the Crocker(for farming Grass Chewing Gum ... can never have enough of those).
 
Face Accessory - Card of the Crogg(for Dexterity and it's easier to farm), Card of the Granite of Truth(same as the Card of Crogg but with the added Bonus of Energy Recharge), Card of Naiad(for Energy Recharge along with a little damage boost) of the Northern Orc Commander(for Stamina ... but I wouldn't recommend you try and farm it until you're level 60 or ask if you could buy it off of someone) and Card of the Black Wolf(for Max Energy).
 
Armor - Card of the Armapede(for defense and energy), Card of the Armored Haul and Card of the Gargoyle(for defense), Card of the Ancient Snail and Card of the Iron Bumblebuzz(for defense and a little boost to your survivability via health), Card of the Bone Nightmare(... for defense), Card of the Metaller(for defense and energy), Card of the Ogre(for damage and defense), Card of the Sandman(for defense and max health) and Card of the Troll(for defense and healing)
 
Gloves - Card of the Thorn Lancer and Card of the Dark Mummy(for raw damage), Card of the Werewolf(for Attack speed, but only if you're using Daggers or Swords), Card of the Bat(for sustain), Card of the Celestial Snail and Card of Mary(for Elemental damage. Proc chance based. The Snail deals Air damage and it's overall damage is higher and Mary provides Water damage but applies movement Slow).
 
Greaves - Card of the Battle Mantis(for extra Strength if you're building Dexterity), Card of the Swamp Adder(for extra Luck if you're building Dexterity), Card of the Goblin Rider(for extra Stamina if you're building Strength) and Card of the Sand Cucumber(for extra Stamina if you're building Dexterity).
 
Footwear - Card of the Clock(for movement speed), Card of the Snowbeus(for Stamina), Card of the Forest Spider(for Dexterity) and Card of Alice(for movement speed and evasion).
 
Weapons - Card of the Mad Boar and Card of the Harlequin(for critical damage), Card of the Minotaur(for good damage and even greater damage if you're using axes), Card of the Warrior Ant(for damage), Card of the Austin Mercenary(for critical chance and damage), Card of the Orc(yes, yes more damage), Card of the Klug(for critical damage), Card of the Harrier(for damage if you're using Daggers) and Card of the Tumbling Snowbeus(for Stamina). Elemental Cards are good and recommended ... no point in writing them down now since you can always see and buy them.
 
Amulet - Card of the Terran(for critical chance), Card of the Huttler(for attack speed), Card of the Old Snowbeus(... again for the Stamina) and Card of the Scorpion(for critical chance and damage ... but mostly damage).
 
Rings - Card of the Troll Spearman(for Strength and Luck), Card of the Hungry Lupus + Card of the Ferocious Lupus(for Luck, Dexterity and Stamina. These two cards were practically made for each other like a love couple.), Card of the Crawler(for the poison resistance and Luck. This is probably the only Card that's not from a monster higher than level 60 ... because all the other alternative Cards for Rings ... kind of suck to be honest or don't really count for recommendation since they're Elite/Blood/Boss ... you get the idea) ... yeah ... sorry but you don't really have many options here.
 
Totem - Card of the Orc Overseer and Card of the Venomous Angeleasel(for both Stamina and Strength) ... yeah ... sorry same problem as the ones from the rings
 
Artifact - Card of the Skeleton Archer(for Dexterity), Card of the Lowland Garguar(for Strength and Stamina), Card of the Cave Pincerbiter(for Luck and Stamina) and Card of the Seasoned Pincerbiter(for the Stamina and extra loot).
 
Shield - Card of the Murker, Card of the Iron Termite, Card of the Alaite Murker and Card of the Polar Murker(all of them for the 8% bonus defense, but each of them provides different types of resistance ... except for the Iron Termite one, it provides health instead).
 
 
Conclusion:
 
If you made it this far ... thanks for sticking around ... I mean it ... yes, I wrote a lot of these parts on separate days at separate hours ... yes, I may have missed or forgotten something ... yes, I may have misspelled some words in my haste and yes, some things that were intended to be in this Build may not even have made it in, but ... as long as you've learned at least 1 tiny little thing ... I can call this guide ... successful.
If you think I've got something wrong and I've not given proper attention to something you find dear or important in the Thief Class ... please comment on it ... prove me wrong and make me proud, because that would mean that you've discovered your own unique way of playing Thief ... hey, maybe one day ... you'll teach me something I don't know about my own Class.
 
Special Thanks to Darkskiss, Nike, Citroz, Muschbrumble, Darkthar and others who helped in experimenting, encouragement and helpful information.
 
Before we all end this Thread ... I'd like to make one last Public Announcement:
Spoiler

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#6 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 12:56 AM

Nice guide, very detailed (dare i say more detailed than mine lol)

Answer no master, never the slave,

Carry your dreams down into the grave


#7 DarksKiss (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 03:14 AM

Very informative and nice guild detailing all of the talents/skills and how they can be used.

I do like thieves because they can be so versatile. They can be built with heavy damage. Or Toss on a shield and pull off a formidable tank with scary self healing capabilities.

Thieves may have not been intended to work that way but that's how it is in RQ.

Mobile users beware the long scrolling. Mahahah.

Excellent work and a lot of time put in this guide.🙂

#8 ŁuWañ (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 05:03 AM

- If you need Stamina - Seal of Stamina

- Footwear - Card of the Clock(for movement speed), Card of the Snowbeus(for Stamina), Card of the Forest Spider(for Dexterity) and Card of Alice(for movement speed and evasion).

 As someone makes a guide to steal an Reward

 my part to better the Community.

Better to community? 

* laughs very loudly *
Read a little higher.
A lot of text does not mean good. A description of each item does not mean well. Tips on the type of these - useful approximately as "what would you need legs to walk and to hold objects - hands." An extremely useful guide.
 

- If you need Stamina - Seal of Stamina

- Footwear - Card of the Clock(for movement speed), Card of the Snowbeus(for Stamina), Card of the Forest Spider(for Dexterity) and Card of Alice(for movement speed and evasion).
 
Well done, I think you spent many hours describing EVERY talent (why, lol, a hefty paragraph for every talent?), But.
 
More text than others doesn’t mean “better for community”.

Edited by ŁuWañ (Elgore), 09 September 2019 - 05:07 AM.

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#9 EdgyDalmaska (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 06:06 AM

This may be the best guide ever made on this site.

Very informative, greatly detailed, subjective on everything and overall perfect.

And most important - it captures the very essence of what "guide" is supposed to be.

Not the "do this and do that, to win this and that" but "here is what you've got, that's how it works, rest is up to you".


Edited by EdgyDalmaska (Elgore), 09 September 2019 - 06:12 AM.

Quite possibly, the worst individual in the entire universe.


#10 DarksKiss (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 02:27 PM

Better to community?
* laughs very loudly *
Read a little higher.
A lot of text does not mean good. A description of each item does not mean well. Tips on the type of these - useful approximately as "what would you need legs to walk and to hold objects - hands." An extremely useful

Well done, I think you spent many hours describing EVERY talent (why, lol, a hefty paragraph for every talent?), But.

More text than others doesn’t mean “better for community”.


What is there to laugh about? The fact she spent hours of her personal time trying to make an actual guide of her class? Unlike most people who just posted a build detailing their favorite talents and gear to use?
She actually takes the time to produce excellent work for this community. I bet it's easy to sit back and criticize everyone and thier work. That's just utterly pathetic.

She nicely explained the many options her class has available to play with. How the talents can work in unison and what other options are available with seals, cards, ect. Every thief does not have to be played full damage elemental build with dodge.....

She points out the seals. And??? Seals are flexible with most classes. Not everyone knows all of the seals and which ones may benefit thier class better.. Everyone only remembers Physical Destruction and Critical Remarks seals = good or you are a noob...

Maybe your HP is 18k and you want a little more HP so looking into a stamina seal is worth it and more likely than dropping an Ancient Treant Card for that stamina...

This guide is excellent in detailing the class and allowing players to make thier own decisions in playing the class. I find it very helpful for those wanting to play a thief.
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#11 ŁuWañ (Elgore)

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 03:44 PM

Shut up. I have already discussed this topic three hundred times on the forum and do not want to do this another three hundred times. read my posts and understand why I criticize. Until you read it, don’t bother me.
P.S. IF U NEED SOME STAMINA U CAN USE SEAL OF STAMINA.

#12 BossBazuka (Elgore)

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:52 AM

Too much unnecessarysmile.png 


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#13 ŁuWañ (Elgore)

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:28 PM

Too much unnecessarysmile.png


U don't understand, brother. Players really don't know what seal they need if they wanna up stamina. c:

#14 Khyaran (Elgore)

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 02:12 PM

I dont get it Luwan, why even make a big deal out of it

Mortred is a good person and wants to help (what remains of) the community by making a guide, yes it is a guide, more then yours anyway

If you dont agree with her, thats fine, if you dont agree with any other build or guide, no problem, but dont go around pissing people off on the forum without any valid reason, unless you want our small as hell server to get even smaller
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Answer no master, never the slave,

Carry your dreams down into the grave


#15 Ðarknight (Elgore)

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:52 PM

I commented on the wrong topic


Edited by Ðarknight (Elgore), 13 September 2019 - 07:31 PM.

nFk3Ux9.jpg





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